Headless Horseman vs. T-800 Terminator
At the time I'm writing this, I can see that the Terminator has the Horseman by over seven hundred votes. I already know my boy's going to lose, and that my opinion is ridiculously logical for this web site, but I still have to say: The Terminator's not winning this fight. There's just no way. As was pointed out, he just doesn't have the tools to hurt the Horseman. In the movie, he was stabbed with a scythe, dragged behind a carriage, caught in an explosion, and had a windmill dropped on him. Never flinched. Now, there may be a way to kill him, one comparable to the vat of molten metal. Remember how his axe dissolved into ash in the churchyard? All Arnie has to do is wrestle him to the middle of town and throw him over the fence. But even if it works, who's to say he'll stay dead? To paraphrase South Park: He's already damned. Where's he going to go? Cleveland? And once he returns to Hell, what's going to keep the witch woman from just summoning him again the next night? Arnie's in a bit more of a bind. If the Horseman is strong enough to slice a man in half with no visible effort, he's strong enough to cause at least minor damage to the Terminator. And he has no way to repair himself back here. No tools--hell, some of the necessary materials don't exist yet, and the ones that do probably aren't pure enough. So, night after night will go by, and the Horseman will eventually wear Arnie down. Done. Van Connor dies. Game, set, match in a week or so. As to the Horseman's victory record: he was killed by roughly a dozen colonials, and about half of them didn't live to tell. The 18th-century Scully didn't *defeat* the Horseman, he *released* him. They were all dead until the Horseman got his skull back and stopped caring.
I have to go with the Headless One here. Why? Because he's Christopher Walken. Who is of course, easily, the creepiest individual in the world. In everything he has ever done, he exudes creepiness. Arnold, while large and therefore somewhat intimidating, has appeared in movies featuring cute children. If the kids aren't scared of him, how bad can he be? Bottom line: character played by Ultimate Eerie sends Big-guy-who-isn't-nearly-as-scary running for a Kindergarten Classroom.
- Evilrabbit: evil, but in cute, fluffy way.
If they are possible, outside influences should be taken into consideration. Tim Burton and James Cameron. Think of them as sort of coaches to the warriors. Both are ruthless men with dark deamons in their souls : James = Titanic, Tim = dumping hottie fiance Lisa Marie for skank of the year, "monkey face" Helena Bonham Carter. (oh yea, and doing artwork for "The Fox and the Hound") They can be evil and heartless when need be -- they're not afraid to hit below the belt. I think their contiuous interuptions would be more hilarious than helpful. Cameron would stop the fight everytime something wasn't historicaly correct and Burton would sulk wearing black telling everyone he directed Batman. (on a side note: I am a big Tim Burton fan so the Horseman better win) Like I said funnier that helpful.
Well, I'm touring China right now, and one of the major social concerns here is the concept of face. Since the horseman has lost so much face, he must be pretty much incapable of anything.
First off, we all know that Bill Gates is the Devil. This is given. Look at any of his software. It's designed to confuse you, link itself together, and tell you that it's the best software out there. In fact, it's probably becoming sentinet right now. But anyway, back to Bill Gates. He's the Devil, so he can bestow any of his powers on the Headless Horseman. Now it being somewhere in the mid to late 1800s, the Prince of Darkness doesn't have all the resources of the feared Microsoft Empire. But we must remember that his powers are still formidable. Now since Windows XP is already becoming sentinent in our homes, it will soon turn all of our nuclear weapons on us. The surviors will wage war on it till John Conor leads them to victory. Now we see that Bill Gates has fathered both of these monstorus creations. So when they meet, they form a botherly bond. Yes, I know that the T-800 is the one from the second movie, but the humans only knew how to make them because of the ones from the first movie. Despite them being at odds, they make a quick stop to the Dark Prince, who form them in a team of walking death. In the 1800s, whose going to stop a beheaded, immortal horseman and an android around 250 years ahead of its own time. So Conor doesn't die cause they have bigger fish to fry. They go and clear most of Canada so that Gates has more land for his sprawling empire and so he can aviod the monopoly laws of the US. Think of how much land an android who doen't tire could clear out and the Horseman would keep those Canucks out of the way. However, the Horseman soon tires of his lot in the afterlife, and returns to Hell. T-800's batteries run out after a hundred years and is soon covered in ice, because he is in the tundra. He is found in 1996, where Bill Gates denies any involvement due to the Windows logo found on the back of its skull. Windows XP is released on time and the world soon falls under his sway perminately.
- Joe Mozdy at WVU
It's really simple, I don't need to think. I voted for the Headless Horseman because: 1) Brendan watches Xena. 2) Brendan put down Monty Python. 3) Brendan. Need I say more?
- Mixmaster Flibble, "I'm with Devin"
The Terminator must win. The Terminator was created following a chain of events resultant from technology the Terminator left behind while traveling back in time to kill John Connor. Hence John Connor's great great great great great great great grandfather Jonathan Van Connor must have survived to spawn Jonh Connor's family line, or else the Terminator would not exist to battle the Headless Horsemen in the first place. At least I think..... I hate temporal physics!
- orcel , who begges you to leave time travel to the experts over at Star Trek
In "The Legend of Sleepy Hollow", the Headless Horseman is a murdered Civil War soldier who died after a cannonball blew his head off. In "Terminator", the T-800 is a cyborg programmed by Skynet to assassinate Sarah Connor, thereby eliminating the human race's savior, her unborn son John. Targets for assassination: The Headless Horseman found Ichabod Crane, a schoolmaster, and wanted to spirit him away, for his head. Did he succeed? Yes. The T-800, in the first "Terminator", was first programmed to kill Sarah Connor, in the mid '80s, before John Connor was born. Did he succeed? No. In the sequel, "T2: Judgement Day", he was captured by the human army and re-programmed to protect pre-teenage John Connor. He was to protect John from a more technologically-advanced assassin, the T-1000. Did he succeed? Yes. In your opinion, who would be a more difficult target to kill, Ichabod Crane, everyday schoolmaster, or Sarah Connor, who will eventually will give birth to the savior of the human race? Sarah by a long shot. Not to mention the 'contest' in a fight. Crane's a normal man, trying to escape a demon. Crane's doomed. No contest at all. The T- 800 failed to terminate Sarah Connor, but she had help from Kyle Reese, human soldier from the future. She at least had a fighting chance. Luck in past Grudge Matches: the T-800 was involved in a previous fight, against the Predator. The T-800 won. So... The T-800 Terminator emancipates The Headless Horseman. After disposing of the Headless Horseman, the T-800 goes out to fulfill his second mission objective, terminating William Von Amend... but that's another Grudge Match.
The Headless Horseman was a Hessian before he got hit with that cannonball and lost all hope of hand-eye coordination. Who was called in to mop up the Hessians in the Revolutionary War? The French.
What else do you need to know? 1 Terminator + 1 fireplace poker = 6 seconds = The Colonless Horsem
- Mr. Silverback- Screams like Ned Flanders when the trick-or-treaters show up.
Brian man, the coolness factor is still in full effect with the T-800 on the job. Anything that Arnold says during an action movie falls under "The Jack Palance Corrolary" of the Palance and Nimoy vs Stack and Walsh Match. IE "Anything he says is going to sound damn cool just cause he's saying it." He could come busting throug the wall yelling "Kool Aid," and the Headless Horseman is going to run all the way back to hell and shit his pants because he knows he's just beat in the Coolness department. Not that he'll even have to use the JPC: Did anyone see Last Action Hero: heh even in medival times the man knows how to whip out aone liner: we keep talking about rules: as he said himself in Hamlet, "Who said I'm fair." The T-800 beats the shit out of Brendan, Devin, and several other security guards, brings his autolodah shotgun, and busts out a line like "Liberty or Death...chose one." The Horseman, of course, not being able to speak, can't choose, and Arnhuld proceeds to blast him into maggot food.
- Providing a valuable service: ridding the world of sucky assed superheroes.
How any futuristic killer robot can defeat the undead I'll never know, but like "The Weakest Link" it's the votes that count, and not common sense.
- "Common sense isn't so common anymore."
Ridiculous.... absolutely ridiculous. To think that the horseman would even have a chance. Now, we know from previous dealings with the T-800 that he is always sent back in time with specific forthought by the sender in question. Never is he sent in "blindfolded" to the situation at hand. Always he knows: 1)Who he is battling 2)Who he is to protect 3)All pertinent information to the situation Thus we find ourselves on the battle field. Horsemen sees a freaky naked guy, walking steadily towards him and decides to kill him. T-800 sees the headless horsemen, popularn in early american culture in what is known has folk lore, which was then made into several movies in the late 20th century. It is known that this creature is controlled by an evil witch bent on revenge, and all the horseman wants is his head back. Having most of the powers of hell at his disposal he is nearly indestructable. Terminate. So what we have here is a totally informed killing machine, and a ghost with no head on a horse trying to kill a little kid. The terminator will be well prepared and destroy the Horseman with extreme prejudice. With or without guns, he still has super human speed and strength. Which the horseman also has, but he can not possibly contend with something he knows nothing about. He thinks killing this yokle will be swift and easy, his blade sinks in, and the terminator proceeds to rip his body apart, stuff it in a bag, carry it to the old hags domicile, rip her arms and legs from there sockets retrieve the head, and place it promoplty in the rectum of the horseman. And thus, the future is safe....... until the next time James Cameron gets a few extra million, and good ol' Arny's got nothing better to do.
- Master D
I originally thought that the Horseman would win, being from Hell and all that, but right before I voted for him, I thought about something. The Headless Horseman needs his horse to be a Horseman. Take that away, and what do you have? A Headless.. Man. Headless Men (tm) aren't scary, they're just stupid. Rather amusing too, if you just repeatedly say it in your head. Hopefully Termie will realize this and kill the horse, and then learn how to time-travel with some clothes on..
OK, lets think for a minute how this match would go in real life: T-800: Eat this! (Fires Musket at Headless Horseman) Headless Horseman look's at the hole in his chest, gets the Rage (tm), raises hi sword and cut's T-800's head in 2, killing him instantly. HH then looks at his target,Jonathan Van Connor, and repeats the process. This is how it would go in real life. The reason is this: The Headless Horseman is DEAD, and therefore, can't be killed. The T-800 may not be "alive", but he can, and has, been killed twice. In real life, the Headless Horseman would win in about 10 seconds, but this is Grudge Match (tm), not real life, and in Grudge Match (tm), the fan's have control. The T-800 is from Terminator 2, a more popular film then Sleepy Hollow, he will have more fans than HH, and will win. This is the exact opposite to the US presidential election, in witch the man with the most powerful friends win's (I can say that, I'm English). T-800 win's by popularity.
- Rincewind the wizzard
One of the intrinsic rules of the universe (okay, its a stupid catchphrase, but the world is built off of catchphrases so...) is that "Two heads are better than one". Now of course, the Simpsons halloween episode with Burn's head being attached to Homer's body seems to disprove this, but another rule is that "Nothing on the Simpsons reflects reality". This isn't reality, so that doesn't apply, but since that means the other one doesn't apply, the fact that this is Grudge-Match (Quote of the Week: Reason? We don't need no stiiiiinking Reason!) means that it does apply. (Lost yet? Good, because now you won't see this next sidestepping of logic) Now since two heads are better than one (or 2h>1h), we can reduce both sides (2h-h>1h-h) so that one head is better than no head. So to prove this mathematically: A. Terminator B. Headless (<--- SEE!) Horseman A=1h B=0h 1h>0h therefore A>B Now watch me seemlessly tie this into the question at hand. Since the Terminator has more head(s) than the Headless Horseman he is 'greater' than the Headless Horseman. Now then A. Mentos Level Coolness™ B. The RAGE™ C. Mr. T (WWWF Mascot, and greatest man ever) C=1h (because Mr. T has one head) C>A+B If the Terminator is greater than Mentos Level Coolness™ plus The RAGE™, then he is much greater than the headless horseman who has only The RAGE™ without the Mentos Level Coolness™
As both of these combatants are nearly-indestructible, any duel between them would probably end as a draw. However, the opening commentaries overlooked an important factor: the Horseman's victory condition constitutes not destroying the T-800, but in claiming the head of Van Connor. If stymied, the Hessian can retreat and then try again and again until he succeeds, and not even the T-800 can be a perfect bodyguard. To quote an annonymous IRA spokesman's phone call after the '84 Brighton hotel bombing barely missed Margaret Thatcher, "Today we were not lucky. But you will have to be lucky all of the time. We only have to be lucky once." Is anywhere safe from this fiend of hell? Well, yes. If Van Connor takes up the cloth and spends the rest of his life in the Vatican, holy ground will _probably_ foil the Horseman's efforts. Unfortunately, that means a vow of chastity, thereby disrupting the bloodline and dooming humanity's future (which may have been the doomsday witch's larger objective). Nuts.
- Matt Bricker
The Terminator has one unbeatable advantage which clinches the fight in his favor. He's from the future. All he has do to is call up the Sleepy Hollow movie in his internal database (which I put there as part of the historical background data for the time he was being sent to) and see how he was beaten.
- John Connor
This boils down to: Fantasy (headless horseman) vs. Technology (T-800) I'm sure Termie will win the popular vote, but that hardly means he would actually win the fight...and here is why: Technology, even technology 1000 years from now, cannot EVER rival fantasy. Fantasy stems from peoples greed, fear, ignorance, stubborness and hard-heartedness. Technology stems from peoples thoughts, hopes, desires, sacrificing for the greater good and the vision about what could be. Given the basic sheep like stupidity of people (myself included) in general, fear and ignorance FAR OUTWEIGH hopes and vision. Sure, we would all like to see hope, vision and thought win, but let us examine what has heppened recently to judge human behavior. Clinton got a second term, why? becuase he represented what was best in mankind, or because people were content with the economy? There have been 16(?) anthrax cases out of 280+million people, yet people are afraid to get their mail? ...yet thousands die every day of natural causes. The ROTW(tm) last week even quoted this basic theme "For the theme of television, and popular culture in general, is: INTELLIGENCE SUCKS. Over and over again, pop culture assures us: Being intelligent, college-educated and well-read won't make you as happy, well-adjusted or successful as being big and dumb. " what more can I say? I wish the T-800 would win, but that's just against human nature.
This was a tough call for me, but I had to go with the Headless Horseman. First of all, the Terminator will not be able to find any clothes that fit because people were smaller in the 18th century. Therefore, he'll have to go up against the Headless Horseman sans clothing. Given his name, the Horseman has got to be incredibly sexually frustrated. A naked Arnold will spark a strange never before felt homoerotic desire deep within HH. Unable to reconcile these feelings, they will be manifested as rage towards the naked T- 800. He will attack with a savagery not seen when confronting a vaguely attractive yet not sexually threatening Johnny Depp. Unfortunately, the Hell-prince Hessian is unable to behead the killer android. As evidenced in the movie, man-made steel and even portable crime kits are enough to stop the hellish blade, so there's no way he'll be able to cut through the Terminator's endo-skeleton. Hence the battle turns into a contest of who can last longer. The advantage goes to the Horseman, being already dead, and all. Plus there is no one to replace the T-800 processor which, even though it's from far into the future will still be obsolete within three weeks. Plus, the Terminator is going to running an advanced version of Windows. (Who would benefit from the world be run by robots all on the same operating system? Who has the resources to produce armies of killer drones? Bill Gates, of course.) So within a week of the battle's beginning, the Terminator going to freeze up and instead of the cool red targeting screen, all he'll be able to see is the BSOD. On the other hand if he is one of the rare Linux-based T-800L's, we have to wait for mechanical failure which could last up to several hundred years. The Headless Horseman and his supernatural body have all the time in the world.
Terminator has a few advantages here:
Motivation: The Horseman is working under duress here; if he gets his head back, he's quick to ignore Van Connor and turn on his summoner. The Terminator on the other hand has his mission firmly burned into every chip in his metallic skull, and as the previous movies have shown will gladly pursue his goal well past the point of near dismemberment. Definite disparity in dedication here.
Quality of Those Who Defeat Them: Both of these giants have admittedly fallen in battle before, so it's worth considering what it took to defeat them. The Terminator faced none other than Michael Biehn, a post-apocalyptic "harder than the hard radiation" Michael Biehn to boot, and managed to kill him even while receiving crippling damage. Granted, he was then crunched by Sarah Connor, but given T2 I think it's safe to say she was tougher than she looked even back then. Who does the Horseman have to blame? Ichabod Crane, who in every version of the story is listed as a pathetic wuss. Even Johnny Depp's version, which actually raised him to something approaching tough, was prone to fainting. And THIS is what took the Horseman out? No wonder he keeps going without a head; he obviously never used it for much if he can lose to someone like that.
Survivability: They may not have the weapons the Terminator is used to back then, but by the same token they don't have much that can harm HIM either. The Horseman can chop all he likes; even a Hell- heated sword isn't gonna do much to titanium battle armor. Note that the Headless Horseman did at least react to being hit with attacks, and this gives Terminator a definite edge. Granted, the Terminator can't kill someone who's already dead either, but that isn't his mission; all he has to do is fend him off until the ultimate baddie shows up and they can swipe the skull from her. No problem; he held off a similar unkillable foe in the T-1000!
Temporal Paradox: If one tries to think too hard about the Terminator's presence (for him to come back would have to mean he succeeds, yet how can the future be set ahead of time...), the temporal logic is horribly confusing. One word to the Horseman on this, and he'll be standing around perplexed for a few minutes trying to reason things out while the Terminator is quietly sneaking Van Connor out the back door.
Backing: Now, I've been pooh-poohing the Headless Horseman's chances here, but he does have one great factor going for him; he was played by the incredible Ray Park during his fight scenes. This certainly makes him a awesome threat, indeed. However, the Terminator has something even tougher in his corner, and I'm not talking about Arnold here. This protector version obviously comes from the second movie's Terminator, and what is the second movie commonly called? T2!! An obvious reference to the great Mr. T himself! Not only that, but the 2 might even signify an improved and deadlier version of the original T! Even being played by THE greatest Dark Lord of the Sith can't stand against that! Obviously, look for Terminator to head off the Headless Horseman!
- "Mad Dog" Mike
Transporting naked didn't stop the inner machine of Terminator from transporting. It's the kind of deceptiveness that is every airport security officer's worst nightmare- right up there with calling an AK- 47 a back brace... very confusing. It's also the same trickery that will enable Terminator to pull a grenade packed with hydrochloric acid out of his ass and properly disposing of it sans the pin down the horseman's esophogus. Rest assured that pony rider "won't be bach".
Shotgun in tow, the T-800 terminator hops on a hog to chase after the horse-riding headless dude. Unfortunately, this is the 18th century and the only hog to be found is Petunia the pig--who just squeals races around in circles until the Terminator falls off.
- Mark Wentz
Well, the essence of the Terminator(tm)is his supeme, his MENTOS-level, coolness. Leather Jacket, Motorcycle, nigh-opaque(tm) sunglasses, and an accent heavier than A-1 steak sauce. But, as you pointed out, he's now deprived of everything but the accent. And don't forget, this is pre-revolutionary upstate New York, back when i was called Schnitzelbourgenheim,(tm) or something. These people probably speak with an even heavier accent than Ahh-nold himself, if they speak english at all! The terminator(tm) is goin into this with nothing.
The essence of the Headless Horseman seems to be that he has no head. The only way the terminator(oh forget the damn tm) could nullify this would be, I suppose, to give him a head, which would only make him the more powerful.
Arnold leaves Hollywood in disgrace, and his place is taken by his defeator, who lands the role of a Ringwrath in Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings.
Ooh, this is a tough one. Therefore, I will resort to the works of the one man who has written parables for every battle imaginable, Vince McMahon. Clearly, the Terminator can be represented by the Undertaker. A badass in sunglasses who rides a motorcycle and takes no shit. What's more, they both have powers beyond that of mortal man. Hell, Undertaker and Terminator even SOUND the same. Can't you just imagine Undertaker going "Hasta la vista, baby," or Terminator saying "Rest... in... PEEEEEACE"? Conversely, the Headless Horseman is Kane. Both are huge faceless monsters about as strong as a solid brick wall, and both are somewhat dim and easily manipulated by smarter people. Plus, they both got the whole "hellfire and brimstone" thing going for them. Well, if Vince McMahon is right (and I've never known to be wrong), the Terminator has this one, because time and again the Undertaker has kicked Kane's ass until it took on an entirely different shape. Let's face it, Kane's dumb as a log and it shouldn't take long for the Terminator/Undertaker to drop this loser in a casket and bury him alive.
- Infraggable Krunk
Wait, wait... This is a match pitting a large and not very intelligent guy on a motorcycle (who is wearing leather) against an inhuman twisted freak of nature (who is also wearing leather). I saw something just like this the other day, in The Rocky Horror Picture Show. And if I recall correctly, the freak took out the guy on the motorcycle rather easily.
"It was a mercy killing."
Let me tell you what, I'd bet you anything that if they found that Headless Horseman's head, it'd be covered with eyeshadow and lipstick.
- My name is Kenny
Back when, I used to play the arcade game "Terminator 2: Judgment Day", a pretty good shooter. In one stage of the game, the player recreates the destruction of Cyberdine. While Sarah Connor rigs the place with explosives, it's the players' job to shoot everything in sight. It's loads of fun but there is a problem. After disposing of the T-1000 at the end of the game, the game (usually) warns you that since you didn't destroy every last target in Cyberdine, the Skynet future could still happen. Hitting every target is almost impossible with two players, much less with a lone shooter, but at least it might make sense if a computer or a filing cabinet survived. But with a partner, we once destroyed everything but an office window, an inflatable dinosaur and a T2 collector's cup. I've heard of the "broken window syndrome" but this is ridiculous. If they can recreate the terminator technology from those objects even after the whole company has been blown up, then that future is not just possible - it is guaranteed. Hence, the Terminator CANNOT prevent the future. That leaves the Terminator in a temporal loop. As long as a paper clip or a roll of toilet paper survives the rampage, the nuclear holocaust will happen, terminators will be sent back to eliminate John Connor and therefore the Terminator will be sent back to defend him and his ancestor here over and over again. Assuming that the voting is accurate and the Terminator always defeats the Headless Horseman, what we have here is a temporal conundrum. But there is a solution. Let the Headless Horseman win! Think about it. If Von Connor bites it, John Connor is never born. Without Connor, the original terminator is never sent back to kill his mother. The technology scavenged from that terminator never exists so Cyberdine never develops Skynet. I think John would find that an acceptable sacrifice and program the cyborg to throw the fight. Sure, we lose out on the great Terminator movies but, on the positive side, Edward Furlong never becomes a star, Jolene Blalock never wastes her time with him and, if she is willing to date a loser like him, maybe one of us losers can get lucky. She isn't choosy. Hey, baby, let's explore some IDIC with me. Saved from apocalypse by Satan. Who knew?
- Paul "Just be glad I didn't bring up Star Trek temporal mechanics" G.
You make some good points, Brian, about the T-800 getting it handed to him by the Horseman: however, you must remember that the T-800 was way, way out of his league in T2, and he still kayoed the T-1000. Come to think of it, John Connor's parents were way out of their league in the first movie, and Sarah still destroyed the T-800. The pattern clearly shows that in any match involving Terminators, the key is to be hopelessly outclassed. It's a guaranteed win.
So, the T-800 will probably be kicked up and down the cobbled streets for 45 minutes before making his Jean-Claude-Style-Comeback (TM), wiping a speck of blood from the corner of his mouth, and attacking the Horseman using some previously undisclosed weakness, such as encasing him in a block of fudge.
- Guszilla (the hack formerly known as gus99)
The best analogy for this fight would be The North-Bound Zax vs. The South-Bound Zax. Except here, one zax is a time-travelling robot bent on destruction and the other is a decapitated hellspawn also bent on destruction. But you get the idea.
Obviously, there's going to be ZERO defense. It's all a matter of "Will the Terminator be able to stand as many whacks with a hatchet as the Horseman can take point blank shotgun blasts to the chest?"
The answer to that question is a resounding yes. Once the fight is over there's only one way the Horseman could kill Ichabod Crane: If ol' Ichobad slipped on the fine paste that was the Horseman as he was walking towards that covered bridge.
- Mike O, aka Muchsarcasm
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