An overcast day once again surrounds the city with an air of gloom. The hard working denizens make their way home from their various and sundry jobs, sit down with their microwave TV dinners, and tune into what will most likely be another depressing news broadcast. Lately the town has taken a turn for the worse. Criminal masterminds seem to have gathered armies and are slowly but surely turning the city into a dismal, decaying cesspool of crime.
The top story of the day comes from a live feed from the mayor's office. The rotund mayor walks down the concrete steps up to a wooden podium with several microphones attached. The crowd of eager reporters is silenced with a wave of his hands and he begins to speak.
"Crime has once again infested our fair city of Gotham. The Joker, the Penguin, the Riddler, Two-Face and this mysterious Catwoman have each taken the city by storm. But I have a solution...."
"Today, I'm instituting a new tax bill. Every time Batman foils one of these criminals plans, the villain will have to pay a fine of $1,000,000. This money will be used to hire more policeman, clean up our schools, fix our roads and perhaps re-open the museum."
Later that evening a meeting takes place on neutral territory. Four of the five master villains of the city sit around a table (Two-Face, of course, was immediately ejected from the meeting after bringing up the absurd suggestion that they just "don't pay"). There is fear in the eyes of everyone here.
"Riddle me this, gentleman. Who is green with a loser haircut, played by an over-actor and about to lose all his money?"
"The Grinch?" asks Catwoman.
"No one cares about your games, Riddler!" sneers The Penguin. "We seem to have ourselves a problem. If Batman foils another one of our plans, we are in danger of losing our fortunes. The way I see it, we have to kill Batman."
"I think our portly fish-eater is right," agrees The Joker. "I'll go do it right now."
"No, this is a purrr-fect opportunity for me to rid the city of its hero."
"Not likely Catwoman, you'll drop your drawers as soon as you get within ten feet of Batman. Better to let a REAL villain do it."
"I'm sorry, Penguin, but I think there is only one way to settle this dispute," concludes the Riddler. "An old fashion Battle Royale. We each take one day to plan and the next day we'll each use everything we've got to destroy or incapacitate each other. Last Master of Evil standing gets to kill Batman."
The Joker vs. The Penguin vs. The Riddler vs. Catwoman
JOE: Now, if this were the old campy TV series Batman baddies, Catwoman would be a shoo-in. But since we are dealing with the movie villains here, I'm gonna have to go with the Joker. The first two movies were the only good ones and since The Riddler was in the third one, that'll disqualify him automatically. Michelle Pfeiffer is definitely a babe and dressed up in that leather kitty suit... well... that'd be enough to distract most of us, Batman included. However, she's not exactly a criminal mastermind, capable of taking out the rest of the competition.
The Joker is the only one who is equipped to do this. He's smart, has extensive knowledge of chemical warfare (aka Joker Brand Products), is well funded, has his own army of mob goons, his own years in the mob have made him vicious and he is just crazy enough to pull it off. He even has a better catch phrase ("You ever dance with the Devil in the pale moonlight?") than the rest of the villains.
The way I see it, the Joker uses his goons to create a distraction near Catwoman's hideout. Batman goes and takes care of the problem and hey, since he's there he might as well check in on Michelle. Meanwhile, he sends some of his beautiful mob hookers down to the Penguin's hideout to give him a Joker Brand Makeover. The Riddler, of course, he does by himself. "Oh, you think you're the crazy one now, huh?" BLAM!! BLAM!! BLAM!! "Ya green suited freak." Later, after Batman gets tired of petting the pu...um, I mean talking with Catwoman, the Joker heads over and "Here's Johnny"'s her.
JEFF: Penguin cares nothing for cosmetics, therefore, I think Joker is pretty defenseless against him. As for Catwoman, well, Penguins and cats seem pretty evenly matched to me. Just lure the cats to the water's edge with the sweet smell of herring guts and drown them.
Penguin's army of, well, penguins are armed with stinger missiles. There is just no way a Joker's dirigible or Catwoman's VW bug can out-maneuver them. And the mayhem doesn't stop there. Technically, Penguin represents all polar semi-marine life. Attracted by the unseasonably cold weather and their natural prey, sea lions will gladly join the fray. Look, who would you pick in a fight, a sea lion, or a sea lion's weight in cats? Frankly, I just can't see the cats having the kind of pack instinct to pull off an attack like, say, a pack of enraged Chihuahuas. And it doesn't end there, oh no. Next up the food chain from sea lions are polar bears. And not just polar bears either. The second amendment to the constitution absolutely guarantees the right of any citizen, including Penguins, to arm bears. Imagine the mayhem when a pack of snow white bears armed with AK-47s (with 30-round clips), smashes onto the scene.
With training from Joker's elite team of circus animal experts, there will be no problem creating the perfect coordinated military attack consisting of artillery (penguins), infantry (sea lions) and, uh, more infantry (polar bears). Penguin in the Bat Cave by noon.
STEVE: Gentlemen, this match will undoubtedly go to the Riddler. Why, do you ask? It's obvious to even the most casual observer that the Riddler always loses to Batman because he has an inexplicable urge to reveal his plans in the forms of riddles, which Batman invariably solves. This is similar to the James Bond Evil Villain Defect (tm) seen with Blofeld, Goldfinger, etc. However, this weakness won't have time to destroy him as usual. The Riddler has only one day to take on 3 enemies. Even if his fatal flaw applies to other villains (which I'm not sure it does), there simply isn't enough time to both plan an attack, craft up riddles to ensure his own defeat, and then allow time for the other numbskulls to solve them. Simply put, the short time scale of the battle doesn't give The Riddler enough time to shoot himself in the foot. Thus, he is ensured victory.
Of course, once he wins this battle, he'll lose to Batman as he always does. But that's another Grudge Match (tm).
JOHN: Fellas, let's not forget what Catwoman represents: nasty, cunning, angry beasts, whose lineage includes some of the most feared predators in the world. They'd just as soon toy with their prey as rip its guts out, and their concern rests with no one but themselves. They are cold-blooded, remorseless and savage purveyors of violence.
And Catwoman represents cats as well.
Look, we know she outlasted the Penguin in the second Batman movie, so that's one down right off the bat. She's got nine lives and has incredible agility, which makes her immediately more fearsome than the Joker and the Riddler, who are just two normal, non-superpower-endowed dudes with cosmetics problems. Besides, the Riddler is tainted by voluntary association with Joel Schumacher, so his term in Arkham Asylum will be immediately renewed.
And who needs a plan when you're so friggin' hot? All she needs to do is go to each of the others and promise them a piece of that sweet, sweet [cat-related joke which falls even below Thinkmaster's low threshold of gutter humor omitted] if they take out the other two first.
Besides, Catwoman's married to uberproducer David E. Kelley. If by some odd chance she's losing, she can just get him to fire the rest of these idiots, and have them thrown off the set.
Catwoman walks away from this one on the stiletto bootheels of sweet victory. Theoretically, this comes down to who could do the most damage to Batman, with the winner proving it by besting his or her three colleagues. Consider Michelle "Catwoman" Pfeiffer's credentials: She survived Batman Returns mainly because she had gotten up close and personal with the Batdude, and not just any Batdude, but Michael Keaton, the winner of our little Battle of the Batmen. If she can fool him, she can fool whoever the next Batman is, probably Rick Schroeder or Tom Green. More importantly, in One Fine Day, she fraternized with a man who's done more damage to the Dark Knight than the whole roster at Arkham Asylum put together. That's right, she was playing huggy-bod-kissy-face with none other than George Clooney!!!
The scenario (specifically the Grinch joke) implies that these villains are aware of things beyond their own celluloid universe, so they probably have a gleeful knowledge of the cine-guano that was Batman and Robin. Once she runs down to the Chick Flick section at Blockbuster and cues up the video evidence they'll be licking her boots. Of course, even with Clooney PowerTM, they will fail because Batman always wins, but Bats will have to take a long vacation in the Canadian Rockies to cleanse his soul after all that overacting and homoerotic cinematography. Luckily, the Superfriends are always willing to cover.
- Mr. Silverback- Proud to make the 4 millionth Schumacher movie joke at this site.
The winner of this match will be the one with the most resources. But luck factor and general evilness must also be measured. Let's go to the TAIL OF THE BAT TAPE:
The Catwoman: She isn't even a villian. She's more of an Anti-
Hero. Her weaknesses are many:
The Penguin: He is a villian, but all he can get are circus freaks.
At least the Joker got ex cons and gang members. Who would you be
afraid of more, A Serial Killer who commits acts of depravity in his
spare time and lists drug use as a hobby or Phil The Bendy Guy.
The Riddler: This is one of the most diabolical, evil,
manipulative...who am I kidding. It's Jim Carrey being Jim Carrey
only with Orange Hair. The Riddler is about as threating as that
punk on Malcom In The Middle.
The Joker: This guy is the baddest mother on the face of Gotham.
Unlike his 3 opponents, he attempted to kill the citizens of Gotham
just for the hell of it. Not because he wasn't elected mayor or
couldn't sell them a box or had Feminine Problems. He Employs actual
gang members that could be useful in a fight. Strong yet stupid,
Numerous but expendable.
Joker beats all of them and goes on to fight Batman in BATMAN 5: NOT AGAIN.
- Shaun the Other White Meat
When I first read this grudge match, I thought John was talking about Catwoman's angry breasts. Now I found this to be very odd, because I didn't know breasts got into moods, though occasionally I have seen them with either a perky or droopy demeanor. However, if Catwoman's breasts can get angry more than the obligatory once a month, I think the Joker, Penguin, and the Riddler are toast, because they'll be too busy staring at Catwoman's rack to realise that they on the bad side of a c-cup sized bra of whupass!
- happily confused
Well, this will probably come down to Joker vs. Riddler, because Penguin is way out of shape to hold his own and Catwoman'll have to be too careful... she's down to her last life, after all. Those two get knocked unconscious early on.
I pick the Joker to win 'cuz anyone who could hide his psychotic criminal tendencies from Aunt Bea has gotta be a nasty mutha$*#@a (and sadly, not even a stern lecture by Sheriff Andy prevented Jack Napier from turning to a life of crime), but there's not enough "Andy Factor" to save Eddie Nigma. Joker overwhelms Riddler and, in true spirit to the tv show, throws Nigma into a vat of plastic at Axis Prosthetics Plant #3. The last we see of Riddler, he's several hundred forehead appliances used in "Opie" Howard's live-action production of "The Cat In The Hat Got Neutered And That".
- Chris 'Jedi' Knight thinks Bane was really Ernest T. Bass on steroids
Files from Analysis division 6
1) Terrain and climate advantages
The Battle is set over gotham city. In the movies this city was almost never shown in daylight or when it was it was usally an overcast day. two of them were set in winter. It's therefore most likely that the day of the battle will be during a raging blizzard. Cats are tropical creatures. Catwoman = 0
It's hard to riddle when your teeth are chattering. Riddler = 0
Try Squirting a person with frozen acid. Joker = 0
It is obvious that the penguin is the only one truly adapted to the subzero gothic climate. Also in extremis the de vito penguin can call in his 'Twin' brother arnold aka mr freize to ensure the perfect climate. = 2
2) Animal allies
Catwoman= The dosmestic house cat. nasty but Any forces based on these are lacking discipline and cohesion (ever tried ordering a cat about). = 0
Joker= Hyenas the jokers of the animal kingdom, a vicous pack animal capable of crunching the bones of larger animals. = 2
Riddler= The only known riddling animal was the sphinx, would be a 7 except it is currently extinct due to overhunting during 1000 bc. = 0
Penguin= Naturally has penguins, Noble decendants of the dinosaurs numbering in the thousands with a strong cohesion instinct but without much in the way of natural weapons. = 1 (sheer weight of numbers)
Joker; The Clown prince, The guys virtually royalty = 2
Catwoman; Naturally refined = 2
Riddler; The guy had about as much style as a flamboyant bill gates = - 100
Penguin; Wears a tux, has an umbrella, = 1
4) Loosely Associated Entities
Joker= La cosa nostra, Ronald McDonald, Krusty the clown,Circuses Chemical companies = 2
Riddler= Mensa, electronics workers (and by implication santa's elves) = 2
Catwoman= Secetaries everywhere, All cat owners and so through the Blofield effect most james bond villains = 3
Penguin= All tuxedo wearers (including all james bonds), european nobility, Environmental groups, and the ENTIRE CONTINENT OF ANTARTICA = 4
In the final assesment the penguin will triumph.
Simple. Joker wins. Here's why:
The Riddler's the first to go. The Curse of the Joe Schumacher™ will live forever. Assorted fanboys, comic book writers, and film critics storm the hall and beat the s--- out of the Riddler. Catamose, he wanders off and was last seen beating up an old man and a foreigner.
Next, the Penguin. A simple pep talk to Catwoman from the Joker about the dangers of anorexia and undereating, and the big bird'll be gone faster than you can say "Sesame Street." Granted, he'll give her a stomace ache, but two Antacid™ pills will take care of that.
Now we're down to the last two good villians. Catwoman's got the Babe Factor™, the Joker's got Mentos Cooolness™, and both have the Rage™. They seem even, but I'm gonna give it to the Joker.
Why, you ask?
In the Glossary, Mentos™ is listed under advanced. The Babe Factor™ is under intermediate. It takes more skill to be advanced than intermediate any day of the week.
There are two possibilities:
1)The villians (well, Riddler and Catwoman, anyway) agree to all go back to their lairs, and enact their deadly plans against each other.
Of course the Joker and the Penguin, immediately attack the others. Why? Ever seen the two Batman flicks they appear in, folks? They're both DEAD. If they're dead, they must have been brought back as brain- eating zombies.
I imagine they'll just kill the Riddler without stopping to slurp on his brains, cause, let's face it, no matter how hungry you were, if you were a hungry zombie, would YOU willingly eat Jim Carrey's brain? Didn't think so.
I imagine Catwoman will be holed up in the Batcave with Batman, Robin, and Alfred, trying to hold off the newly raised-from-the-dead, walking-brain-eating-corpses in a horror extravaganza that can only be called "Joel Schmucchers: Batman 4: The Franchise that Just won't Die".
2)Of course, if there has to be a "real" winner, I have to go with the Joker. You have to respect someone who always remembers "No matter how angry you make people, always leave them laughing." Besides, in the first Batman movie, he killed off/captured most of the other mob bosses at a meeting to discuss new business.
It's likely that when he leaves the building, he'll just have his men lock the doors and flood the place with Smile-X gas, insuring his continuing reign as Batman's most villianous villian.
Of course, should the Joker be eventually captured by Batman, the city will be disgusted, as the millions in cash they seize from him will all be in $1 bills, with the Joker's smiling mug instead of George Washington. Proving that the government has had yet another "sounds good but is totally useless in real life" idea.
Joker takes this one. Joker is, of course, The Almighty Jack.(tm)
TAJ(tm) played a werewolf in "Wolf". Wolf boinked Michelle Pfeiffer and turned her into a wolf. Doing this to Catwoman would confuse her DNA so much that she would become a victim of Spontaneous- Human/Cat/Wolf-Cumbustion. Seeing as how Catwoman foolishly used up 8 of her 9 lives wasting Max Shreck, she's one dead kitty.
Taking a bite out of Penguin wouldn't quite have the same effect, so The Almighty Jack would have to revert to being Jimmy Hoffa. Sure, Penguin might be a corrupt mayoral candidate, but can he handle The Teamsters? I think not.
To eliminate Riddler would take something subtle because he is a genius. You can't just attack him with an ax or something, so JokerJackJimmy would morph into Daryl Van Horne from The Witches of Eastwick (where, incidentally, he boinked Michelle Pfeiffer AGAIN!!) Assuming this form of the AntiChrist himself, Riddler would be too busy puking up cherry pits and feathers to be of any nuisance.
Bring on the Bat.
Looks like I am going to have to side with the Joker on this one. Let's look at the combatants and see why.
The Riddler: Was played by Jim Carrey, a guy who believes that hyperactivity can substitute for acting talent. However even Carrey's hyperactivity wasn't enough to save him from being defeated by one of the worst Batmen in the franchise's history. Even his alliance with Two-Face couldn't prevent it.
The Penguin: Was played by Danny Devito. While I like Devito and think he is a decent comic actor, he really doesn't play powerful villains. In "Ruthless People" he's a crook who is outwitted by Bette Midler. Then, in "Other People's Money", he is defeated by the wiles of Penelope Ann Miller's character. Even in his coolest role (Uncle Herb on "The Simpsons") he was utterly ruined by none other than Homer. A track record like this casts great doubt on the Penguin's abilities. Then, let's not forget that the Penguin's father was played by none other than Paul Reubens (aka Pee-Wee Herman). Another point against him. Finally, he was defeated, even though he had Catwoman as an ally.
As for Catwoman, Michelle Pfieffer is an attractive woman and usually appears as such (though I remember she did look a bit frumpy in this one film which was an updated version of "King Lear" set on a ranch). But her villain experience is limited pretty much to the role of Catwoman. And remember that she couldn't defeat Batman even with help from the Penguin.
The Joker: Was played by no less a figure than Jack Nicholson. In his long film career, Nicholson has made a specialty out of portraying vicious nuts. Cinematic villainy is nothing new to him. He is a battle-hardened veteran. He even dabbles in it in real life. Witness the case where he trashed some guy's car with a nine- iron. He even managed to keep the cops from arresting him. Almost no one else can do something like that. As for the Joker, he managed to hurt Batman pretty bad on his own and even shot down the Batwing.
The Joker has yet another advantage - a potent chemical weapon in the form of Smilex gas. None of the other villains has a weapon anywhere near as deadly.
So, what will happen is that the Joker will send cannisters of Smilex gas, disguised as innocuous gifts from other people, to his opponents. They will be dead with smiles on their faces in seconds. Then the Joker will take on Batman, and since this Batman is the one played by George Clooney - the worst of the whole franchise, the Joker will handily defeat the now-inferior Caped Crusader.
- The Demented Astronomer
The Riddler shall win. Why is this everyone asks? Look at all the movies Jim Carrey has been in.
Earth Girls are Easy
- Jumpy, the magic cannibal
The Riddler? Are you kidding?!? He couldn't even outsmart a Bat-Nipple (tm) brandishing, Bat-Enhanced-Codpiece(tm) wearing Chris O'Donnell. He's taken out five seconds after the fight begins.
The Joker is little more than a glorified clown. Clowns evolved from the "art" of mime. In fact, the Joker employed mimes as henchmen! MIMES! As we all know, mimes spawned from hel- er, France. Alas, the Curse of the French(tm) causes Joker's inevitable downfall. It's a shame, really.
Penguin? I don't think so. While his feathered friends were cute, they weren't all that intimidating. And his gang? Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it made up entirely of carnies (small hands) and clowns (French)? Curse of the French(tm), part deux. Chester's monocle gets shoved into a cold, dark place.
It's Catwoman all the way, baby! (That's right, Michelle, you win! You may thank me by demonstrating just how chaffe-resistant that leather catsuit of yours is... hominahomina... )
- Spoo Monkey
I would have voted for Mr. Nicholson, but just as I was about to click on his button, my hormones forced my hand down the page. Still, if Catwoman wins, maybe she'll ditch that Prince of Pap who takes away screen time from good shows.
- The Nestbeschmutzer, trying to make the best of a bad situation
Seeing as The Name Factor™ is so important in Grudge Match, let's examine the real names of the contestants, shall we?
The Penguin: Oswald Cobblepott? Puh-LEASE! That's got to be the stupidest name I've ever heard. What were his parents *thinking*?! Besides, Oswald was also the name of a cartoon rabbit that ol' Uncle Walt replaced with Mickey Mouse. Guess whose merchandise is still avaliable with obnoxious regularity?
The Riddler: Edward Nygma. Oh, I get it. E. Nygma! Enigma! Ha ha ha ha! That's *almost* clever. I won't even comment on the many dead English kings named Edward, none of which were Soccer Hooligans™. NEXT!
Catwoman: Selena Kyle, ooh! Now we're talking. Sweet, sexy, and easy to pronounce. Unfortunatley, Ms. "Gives-A-New-Meaning-To-The- Term 'Pussy Whipped'" shares her name with *late* Latino pop-star Selena. That's gonna bring some bad karma.
The Joker: Apparently, "Jack Naiper" is just an alias, and no one knows his real name or identity. Which is good, 'cause "Naiper" is kinda lame. But "The Joker" is the name of a song by the Steve Miller Band, and that's good enough for me! Go Joker!
- Andy the Anarchist
The top 5 reasons why the Joker will win:
While villains are always unable to bump off those finger-in-mouth-inducingly pure-hearted hero types, they are almost 100% effective when it comes to killing other bad guys. Examples would be Darth Vader strangling his henchmen, Goldfinger poison-gassing a roomful of gullible mob bosses, and, of course, Hollywood studios (a great evil) killing Joel Schumacher's career (an even greater evil). Since they are trying to kill other bad guys, all four of these villains are assured of being successful-- which makes this an "all mangled and killed" (tm) situation if there ever was one.
With the major villains out of the way, Gotham City becomes prosperous and crime-free, and can finally afford to spruce up those cheesy futuristic streets and turn some lights on. Now that he's of no further use as a crimefighter, Bruce Wayne finally reveals his identity, and no one cares except the American Civil Liberties Union, which has him hauled off to Alcatraz for his use of unlawful physical force and other violations of the rights of insane mutants. Dick Grayson's tell-all book is in the works.
- Captain Corcoran (It's not a happy ending unless Batman's miserable)
Seeing as how Mr. Freeze and Poison Ivy from "Batman and Robin" aren't on the ballot, they must've already been killed or something.
Erego, I'll be too busy celebrating to care who wins. Yay!
We must include each actor's previous identities.
Penguin: Danny DeVito, who had a role in Taxi (good), and
was Arnold Schwarzenegger's (hey, I spelled that right!) identical
twin in Twins (bad).
- D-kun, a fan of Tim Burton's Batman films
Whether it mirrors our own ghoulish facets of humanity or instructs us in new and wicked ideas, Hollywood acts as an enabler for our thoughtless actions. It speaks to some of us... calls to others... teaches some... and mimics all of us.
The insidious doctrine that guides all media content is as follows:
(Please note that somewhere in this process I'm certain there must exist a sub-process to develop McDonald Happy Meal toys.)
Following this paradigm, let's look at the motivation that drives the Hollywood machine.
Statistics gathered from www.WorldWideBoxOffice.com obviously dictate the true frontrunner of this fracas. On the screen, the Joker would generate the largest consumer draw and therefore be the most likely to succeed.
However, the Joker will inevitably fail as proven in the past. It will be the producers and writers that ultimately destroy Batman. A team of analysts will determine the bottom dollar, verify the gross value projection, and recommend the Joker triumph for the greatest allowable profit. If the numbers demonstrate that it would be more profitable to ice the Dark Knight, everyone in Hollywood would rush to dig the grave.
Batman, even with his bulletproof nipples, Val Kilmer hair, George Clooney smile, and Michael Keaton eyes, wouldn't stand a chance against a barrage of CPAs, lawyers, actors, and producers hungry for their pay cut.
I know... I know... it's a sad and terrible state of affairs. Funny... I don't care as long as they keep piping those blessed and sweet hypnotic television waves into my head.
The Joker is Jack Nicholson!!! No way he could lose. He is the DEVIL--evil incarnate. The other three are simply his minions and cannon fodder.
As pointed out, the riddler is associated with Schumacher who beat out the dreaded WILLIAM SHATNER(TM) for worst director. Hence, Schumacher's minions(TM) are actually WORSE that Star Trek goons who we all know must lose(TM). Clearly any of the other Bat Villians(TM) could easliy defeat anything from Trek due to the curse(TM). Therefore, invoking simple logic of A>B>C therefore A>C we know that the Riddler is down right from the start.
Catwoman does have the coveted babe factor(TM) on her side, but as pointed out in Voyager vs Galactica, and four other matches, that doesn't seem to help much.
While Danny Divito is a force to be reckoned with, he still got dissed by Pee-Wee Herman. If even that loser won't put up with the Penguin, that can't be good for his chances.
Is the Penguin Tux?
If there's even the remotest connection, he wins automatically.
- Jeff Random Hacker
It doesn't really matter who wins. After Batman gets offed, Gotham uses its brains and finds a real superhero:
T eats his greens, drinks his milk, buys another 5 chains with religious symbols from 5 different religions (educating the world that, yes, Zoroastrianism has a symbol), kicks a little ass, and reminds the T-SQUAD to stay in school.
I PITY THA FO' WHO KILL BATMAN
- B.A. Jondogg
This is too easy. Since Joker is alive, this must be before the first movie, events-wise. Therefore, Catwoman still has nine lives, instead of the one she had left at the end of Batman Returns. She could lose two lives versus each of the other villains and still come out on top (thinking back on the amount of innuendo in the intro, this phrase is probably not apropos) with more than enough lives to take on the Other Man In Black (besides the Grim Reaper, Zorro, Darth Vader, Darth Maul, Palpatine, etc.). Plus, the first paragraph and following punchline in John's commentary were absolutely hilarious. Catwoman gets Humor[tm] support in addition to RAGE[tm], Mentos-level coolness[tm], Something big's weight in Chihuahuas (if you look closely, you will see that Chihuahuas are just cats that were too ugly to sell as cats, so someone called 'em dogs), and Babe Factor[tm]. Considering the leather costume, that might be Babe Factor[tm] squared, times twelve, plus the natural log of Michelle Pfeiffer's combined movie salary plus earnings, and a half.
- Kannyn the Trandoshan Jedi (I was gonna put my name in an HTML email tag, but dontcha know I'm way too lazy.)
First off, Riddler is a non factor. That psycho hack Jim Carey played him. He's more likly to take himself out for a cheep laugh. Joker: dead. Penquin: dead. Catwoman: on her last life. But I refuse to vote for that dominitrix fantasy because I AM THE PHYSICAL MANIFESTION OF SEXUAL FRUSTRATION!! I have been scorned by women from one side of the Great White North to the other and I CAN'T TAKE IT ANY MORE! Everything that was mentioned in the commentry about women is STONE COLD TRUE!! I voted for the Joker because I welcome the acts of mindless voilence he represents. I rather be whacked by a smiling fish, crushed by an anvil, or melted by acid than to put up with feminine crulty. I rather my heart was ripped out phisically than mentaly! I know! Let's put Catwoman in the same cell as Riddler!
- Make the hurting stop. PSYCHO JAY
What, no Joel Schumacher button?
I'd just love to see that nutjob get fined $1,000,000 for each crime he's committed. All you'd need to do is add up the total number of minutes from Batman Returns and Batman & Robin and multiply by $1 MILLION.
Sounds like a jackpot for the kids. Good times all around!
- Andrew Wright
Catwoman (Michelle) is hot, she purrs, licks herself and can rebound from Movies like Greese 2 and Married to the Mob as well as skyscrapper plunges. Penguin (Danny) smells like fish, is the poster child for Randy Newman's "Short People" song, and through "Throw Momma from the Train" and "Goonies" is kin to Lunk, another example of Arkansas imbreeding. Riddler(Ace) is long overdue for a facial seizure and will degenerate into Henry Kissinger, and we all know Henry doesn't play. Joker (Jack) well, he's already faced Catwoman in a little town called Eastwick and lost (So whaddya think? Women... a mistake... or DID HE DO IT TO US ON PURPOSE?), he crawl under his shades and leave the door open for.....
- J.A.F.O. in Dallas
Oh my, this is a tough one. We have a competition between:
The way I see it, the Joker lights a match under the smoke detector, opens a corrosion-proof umbrella over his head, and dances to "Singin' in the Rain" as sulfuric acid pours down from the sprinkler system. Sure, the rules said that everyone has a day to prepare, but since when does the Joker play by the rules?
- Lou the Inscrutible
No no no. You poor, blind fools. Does no one take into account the most deadly weapon invented by man? A destructive force so powerful it is banned even by the Iraquis? The weapon that has brought the most powerful leaders to their knees? I'm not talking about Catwoman's tight leather suit (mmm...Catwoman), nor the penguin army. No, the most destructive force in the universe is Jim Carrey's ass. I don't even need to delve into examples, for the very thought frightens what little sense I have left into the corner to be beaten by a hairy woman weilding a sawed off baseball bat. Suffice it to say that with a single word from that evil...thing in Jims ass, the competition will fall over dead. Not even the French Foreign Leigon can save the day this time.
Riddler insisted that they fight it out amongst themselves first, then the winner would take on Batman. This puts him out of the running. This foolish strategy leaves a single (potentially weakened) criminal attempting to assassinate Batman. If this is the best Riddler can think of, he is doomed. Unless, of course, this is merely a ploy to distract the other three while he kills Batman.
The winning villian will be the one who is able to forge alliances while not remaining tied down without options. Consider Hitler in Poland. He made an alliance with the USSR, but when this alliance was no longer useful to him, he immediately broke it, taking Poland and continuing significantly into Russia--almost to Moscow itself. Although in the long run, breaking alliances is a losing strategy, this is merely a short-term attempt to assassinate a single man. The winner will have studied successful military leaders from Sun Tzu to Dwight D. Eisenhower. The winner will outnumber the other criminals as well as Batman.
I guess I'd have to give this to the Penguin. He appears intelligent enough to look halfway sane. He also (according to the commentary) has an army at his back (I'll give him the penguins, but the sea lions and polar bears is just absurd). And he is the first one in the group to actually mention a viable solution to the problem.
Although, of course, everything will go wrong starting 20 minutes from the end of the movie and Batman will win. But the Penguin will beat out the other three crooks, if he's stupid enough to fight them.
Oh golly, what a difficult decision. Cat Woman and the Riddler are at best devious; the Penguin is simply a freakish thug; and the Joker is a dangerously insane, criminal mastermind. Well, gee. Who shall I pick?
Cat Woman has a whip and claws. The Penguin has an arsenal of umbrellas, and a gang composed mainly of clowns. The Riddler has a cane, a mind-reading device, and a bunch of really bad jokes. The Joker has taken over the leading crime families of Gotham, possesses an array of chemical weaponry, a tricked-out joy-buzzer, and a really big handgun.
The other badguys don't have the resources that the Joker has, nor the motives. The Riddler and the Penguin are both fueled by greed, pure and simple. Cat Woman is heavily concussed, and wants to kill her former employer. The Joker is hopelessly deranged, and wants more than anything the death of Batman. Batman caused his current appearance, and has foiled his plans for longer than any of the other bad guys. Also, the Joker really enjoys killing. With his Make Over attack, he made no demands for ransom - he just wanted to cause mayhem. The same thing goes with his parade-ballons filled with poisonous gas. Both of these were, in the Joker's mind, punishment for Batman.
The Joker will make extremely quick work of the other bad guys, then will be unfortunately defeated by Batman. Of course, he will have killed Schumacher first, for not bringing him back in the sequels.
Well, it looks like a certain villain isn't quite getting the recognition he deserves! That's right, I'm talking about the web-footed master of mayhem, the only batman villain to give me nightmares, the Penguin! Here's the play-by-play on how he would defeat each and every one of the other three wannabes.
The Joker: The Joker is a clown. The Penguin owns a huge freaking Circus From Hell(TM)! One clown versus many clowns. Add that to the fact that Penguin has enough dreariness to him to make even the Joker crack a frown, and you've got one serious Antarctic can of Whoop-ass. The power of the minions, baby.
Catwoman: The angst and rage factor here. The Penguin became a criminal mastermind when abandoned by his parents and forced to live in the sewer for his entire life. Catwoman fell out of a window. Who has the greater motivation for revenge?
The Riddler: Oh, come on. Riddle me this: What kicks more ass? A mind-bending villain full of questions and conundrums? Or a giant rubber ducky? Besides, Penguin had the whole mind-control thing first. Experience wins out.
Overall, lets analyze the names. The Riddler and the Joker. What's so great about these guys? They sound like they aren't even serious about crime. If you're just gonna f**k around, then get outta Gotham! Catwoman. A little more intimidating, but Hello Kitty come to mind. The Penguin. You ever seen one of those things up close? those things are SCARY, man. Give me the chills. They're evil, I tell ya! EVIL! Ahem. And ok, there's a penguin in Hello Kitty. But he's the badass one! I'll close with a phrase that brings my whole point to clarity: Penguins with rocket launchers attatched to their backs. Thank you.
- KC Lewis
Among Joker, Penguin, Riddler, and Catwoman, only Penguin has in his crew the only criminal ever to escape justice in Gotham City: Poodle-woman. Poodle-woman's dog outsmarted a programmable Bat-a-rang that had clobbered three hardened thugs. Joker? When Poodle-woman rubs his rhubarb, he'll take it, and he'll like it. Catwoman? Meets Poodle-woman. Hears her bark. Riddler? Will find out how many poodle-bites it takes to get slapped with a $1,000,000 tax bill. Penguin? By now he's learned to just step back and let Poodle-woman teach these old dogs some new tricks.
- Ace, The Bat-hound
Okay--1st things first:
Catwoman is a professional thief with fighting capabilities (see Batman Returns, see how much ass she kicked?).
Joker is a homicidal practical joker with no fighting ability (see his ass get handed to him a few times in Batman)
Riddler is a flamer. Look at his hair. He can't throw a punch.
Penguin is one slow, fat waddling piece of lard that looks like it spewed out of the thighs of Carnie Wilson.
The order of dispatching: while Catwoman slices through the fatty tissue of Penguin with her claws, Riddler violates Joker which reduces to the rank of Queen. Catwoman, appalled by the effiminity of her former partners, spares them a torturous death by strangling them with her whip. Which they actually enjoy for the first few minutes.
- The Genie
this match really doesn't matter... you do realize this? right? each one of these guys has failed multiple times at trying to knock off (or in catwomans case, knock up) batman. what makes them think that with killing off the other 3 villans they stand a better chance? of course the really logical thing for this fearsome four would be to team up and go after him, but heck, we know that logic is not their strong point.
after telling you what they shoud do, now i tell you what will happen. our clever catwoman ~((whom john used nicely to complement womankind, thanx a lot buddy))~ will talk call the ever heroic batman to her rescue as the other 3 idiots try and kill her. batman will catch them all and leave them hanging tied up for the police to find. of course, knowing gothem police, catwoman will have plenty of time to finish up what the humanitarian batman couldn't. clawing their faces off or disembowelment will leave her the victor to go and get caught by batman.
- the deranged ferret
The Joker is already winning by a landslide, but COME ON! Let's look at the tally from the movies:
The Joker: Dead
The Riddler: Lobotomized (and being Jim Carrey, that's superfluous!)
Catwoman: Alive and well. Besides which, she SEDUCED Batman and kicked his ass, too. Too bad that Catwoman movie spin-off never happened with Michelle Pfeiffer. Meow!
To paraphrase Fatima Blush said in "Never Say Never Again", "They might quite the men, but Catwoman is a superior woman."
- Jonah Falcon
My vote is for Catwoman, sorta, but this is how it pans out. Penguin puts all Jim Carrey fans out of their misery for watching him in this God forsaken role before he knew what acting really was, and used his missle-clad penguins to eliminate the Shoemaker aslyum invention - also taking care of any other competition in the form of Mr. Freeze and Poison Ivy. Joker uses his childhood chemistry experimentation to create a thermal environment which is just too much for Penguin to handle, and he once again pathetically asks for a "glass of ice water." This leaves Joker versus the leather whip goddess. Now, Catwoman has merely one pathetic life left, and Joker, well, we all know he no longer laughs after his miraculous recovery from a 200+ foot fall. Using her seductive whipping skills - enough to get any guy distracted, Catwoman lassoed the balloon floats, and unleashed the deadly laughing gas, giving the Joker a taste of his own medicine. Forgetting, however, to wear a mask of her own, Catwoman used the last of her nine lives in a desperation attempt to protect the man of her dreams, and keep any of his former sworn enemies from ridding Gotham City of the "Winged Freak." So, although forced to vote for one, really no one wins, with Catwoman begin exactly that to the end, a woman, who's sensibilities and emotions conquered over all.
- Th3 M3ssiah
The Joker will win simply because he looks like a clown. And everyone knows, YOU NEVER, EVER MESS WITH CLOWNS!
- Jessie "the clown at my 4th birthday party carried a sniper rifle" Calliopa
I voted for Joker. Why? Because Jack Nicholson is, hands down, the creepiest, freakiest man known to Satan since Anthony Hopkins petered out in the biggest letdown since that movie where that guy's girlfriend turned out to be a guy (What?! NOOOOO!!!). Case in point: My father worked in a psychiatric ward, and he was freaked out by Jack. I mean, think about it, what would you think if you met these guys in a dark alley?
Catwoman: Obviously a hooker with a leather and bondage fetish. Deserves at least one bitch slap for making her career out of a bad pun (Catwoman. Cat burglar? Huh? Get it?)
Penguin: Oh, please. Allow me to dramatize:(ahem) "OH MY GOD!! AN ENORMOUSLY FAT, WADDLING, MIDDLE-AGED FREAK! RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!! AAAAGHHH!!!!!"
Riddler: Good lord! Lime-green, tight-fitting (*shudder*) jumpsuit, flaming red hair, and incredibly long cane. Do the math, folks (Holy Homosexuals, Batman!). Another bitch slap should suffice.
Joker: Now, here we go. Aside from (or because of) that gawdawful creepy grin, he calls upon one of the deep-seated fears of mankind: Clowns. Many a child has been emotionally scarred for life by these demons of the netherworld, manifested on our world by unearthly forces. They must be stopped for the good of mankind!!! Do you hear me??!!! THEY MUST BE STOPPED!!!! Hey, what are you doing with that straightjack-- (sounds of a muffled struggle)
Hello, ladies and gentleman. We apologize for Tracer's actions. He hasn't been taking his medication and will be punished. Bring out the garden hose and the waffle iron, boys!
(in the next room): NOOOOO!!!
- Tracer Malone
The Penguin will come out on top, and here's why: He is the least prominent of the four.
When you think of badasses, Joker is right there near the top of list; at this time, the Riddler is an up-and-coming millionaire; and it's very very hard to ignore Catwoman. Penguin just doesn't seem to measure up to the rest (he uses umbrellas as weapons, he can't be thought much by his peers), and thus will be comparatively ignored by the others. After he watches them decimate each other, he and his army of laughable but dangerous penguins will take care of his remaining weakened enemies.
Or we could look at their past successes. Obviously, all fell before Batman. BUT Joker lost fighting Batman alone and Riddler fought alongside Two-Face against the Dynamic Duo. That's a ratio of 1:1 for each. Penguin had to fight Batman AND Catwoman, and he still put up a good fight, up until the end. He was man enough to take on his foes one-on-two, against the MICHAEL KEATON Batman to boot.
I say, those other three can start bowing down to the 5-foot menace right now.
- Infraggable Krunk
Penguin-mounted stinger missiles? Give me a break. I could pull a better Batman-beating Catwoman-crunching scheme out of my arse. Lets be honest here: the Joker is king. Why is he king, you ask? Two words: sheer unpredictability. Like Murdock from the A-Team, Martin Riggs from Lethal weapon, or to a Castor Troy from Face/Off, its the wildcard that gets things done in the most bloody, violent, destructive way possible. In the movie, the man attempted mass murder with nerve gas, electrocuted a mob boss on a whim, and used a beautiful, high-class moll as his personal cutting board, all just because he wanted to. In the comics, he regularly commits massacres, extortion, nuclear terrorism, etc..., and to top it off, killed the second Robin with a crowbar and then a bomb (talk about overkill) and then made a parapalegic out of batgirl (something I prayed for during Batman & Robin).
Look at the competition. First off, we have a rotund albino midget with an umbrella fetish whose best gimmick is that he trained penguins to fire missiles at each other. We then have an anorexic Ace Ventura wannabe who came up with the brilliant idea of using television to captivate the minds of Gotham (been done better in real life; look at the Juggy Dance Squad on the Man-Show). Last of all, we have Madame Ilsa the Dominatrix. As appealing as it would be to whip me, spank me, and make me bleed (kinky sex is what I need), i just don't think a leather bodysuit and bullwhip stands up to nerve gas, 500,000 volt joybuzzers, and a Colt Python with a four foot barrel.
- Grandmaster B
However hampered the penguin may be with his digit-less flippers, he will defeat all due to his secret weapon. He was not the only child to be flushed by his parents, there was another!
Whilst the Penguin developed a taste for raw fish in Arctic World (or was it Japan?) his TWIN BROTHER who was equally but oppositley disfigured, floated all the way to an Austrian steroid factory which he has emptied and is now in Gotham looking for more.
Having told his oversized, underschlonged brother that the Joker, Riddler and Catwoman are in fact made of pure anabolic material, he is now hell bent on devouring them whole leaving the Penguin to take over their crime operations and not bother fighting Batman at all.
The key phrase in the scenario: We each take one day to plan and the next day we'll each use everything we've got to destroy or incapacitate each other.
While it's more likely for a commercial airliner to land on my house than for these four Evil Masterminds to actually spend an entire day planning - rather than sabotaging each other before the official 'start' of their little war - can you imagine what would happen if they DID just spend one entire day planning? Can you fathom what 24 hours of abrupt peace would do to Batman?
He'd start having flashbacks and questioning his worth if given so much as ten seconds where his life or busainess wasn't seriously endangered. Batman would prolly have an irreversible identity crisis within 30 minutes and have to be hauled off for a long visit to Arkham by noon. Then, being left alone, Robin would start messing with some of the gadgets in the Bat Cave and quite frankly if Gotham City survives that then there's nothing the residents have to fear from any of the so-called Evil Masterminds.
Batman villains have been plotting for years to take down the Bat. They've been showing up two at a time in movies, just to get a little time to discuss who to kidnap as bait. Joker and Catwoman: Wolf. Joker and Penguin: One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, Hoffa, Mars Attacks. Penguin and Mr. Freeze: Twins, Junior. Riddler and Penguin: Man on the Moon. Poison Ivy and Catwoman: Dangerous Liaisons. Two-Face must have an unlisted number.
Unfortunately for the villains, Batman's been aware of these meetings, and sent some of his friends to infiltrate them. Two-Face got stung by Blade (U.S. Marshals). The Riddler was found sharing secrets with Blankman (Earth Girls Are Easy). Penguin accidentally spilled the beans to Vicky Vale (L.A. Confidential.) And the Joker, embarrassingly, got caught by Captain Amazing from Mystery Men (As Good As It Gets).
This just leaves Catwoman free to do the deed.
- Kilgore Trout
Pity these four contestants. Oh sure, you probably think a life of crime is an easy one, but for these four I'm sure it's not. First of all, giving your criminal career a theme can be very restricting. How easy it would be to just a rob a bank or something! But no. These guys (and girl) have to try to steal the likes of: jewel-encrusted cat statues, ruby-studded clown noses, and penguin-shaped gold nuggets. In fact, there's precious little appropriate booty out there for them. This is why very few modern criminals go to the bother of having a theme anymore.
Next, consider the modus oppernadi. Don't you think the Riddler *knows* that Batman is going to see through his lame puzzles and catch him trying to nab Gotham's World-Famous Diamond Question Mark (TM)? Of course he does. But if he didn't go through the motions, he just wouldn't be the Riddler. Would he?
How about henchmen? Do you know how hard it must be to get 3 or 4 toughs to dress in identical costumes, complete with cat ears? Or to get them to agree to go by stupid names like `Across`, and `Down`?
Furthermore, these poor schlubs are caught so very easily, it seems. `A car was stolen downtown. The perp left a stuffed penguin at the scene of the crime. It might be the Penguin...`
I haven't even mentioned the indignity of having to share the criminal stage with such fear-inspiring villains as Egghead, the Minstrel, and King Tut.
Clearly, there are no winners in this battle. But at least the Penguin is a snappy dresser.
- 1/2 Nelson --Same Grudge-time, same Grudge-channel
I don't have much time. She'll be home any minute.
I post this response secretly because my wife is an avid penguin fan. She loves penguins and penguinic trinkets. She has told me my vote MUST go to the Penguin or "bad things" will happen to me.
But the Joker will win. C'mon! It's Jack Nicholson for crying out loud. Who's gonna beat Jack? Danny DeVito? Jim Carrey? Michelle Pfeiffer? Not likely, which is why the Joker gets my vote...
...against my wife's orders.
Please don't tell her I wrote this. I'm just a frail man trying to do right. For my own safety, I need complete secrecy.
- Mark Wentz -- I know using my name doesn't seem incognito...but I'm wearing sunglasses as I type it.
My vote goes to the Joker -- but the original Joker, not Jack Nicholson's version. The Joker is naturally superior in either incarnation: the penchant for lavender suits alone betokens a warped disconnection from normality that comes only from genius gone horribly wrong.
Jack's version, however, is simply emblematic of his postmodern era, with his dark demeanor rather than a whooping laugh, and a cynical detachment from horrible death. Cesar Romero, however transcended his time with one truly inspired lunatic act, when one of his schemes to be rid of the Dynamic Duo led to Robin being eaten alive by a giant clam.
Yes, a giant clam.
Holy bivalves, Batman!
Now, ponder the subtexts. Ponder them some more. Then remember that he got away with doing this on network television, thirty-five years ago. That shows a gleeful perversity far beyond anything Jack ever managed, and light-years ahead of the competition in any era.
I leave the methods by which Penguin, Riddler, and Catwoman meet their ends to your imagination, now that it has been jolted into salacious overdrive.
- Call me Shane
It has to be the penguin, because he's just so damn disgusting. That riddler person's just too silly, and is played by one of the most annoying actors in existence. He should be in a comic book like the Beano or something. As he's half way through some supposedly funny riddle or anecdote he'd get bumped off by a well placed umbrella:
"What's black and white and" squelch. No more Mr. Riddler. As his body falls limp, skewered to the wall by a gently spinning umbrella, the Penguin turns his attention to the rest of the fray. Catwoman is showing off with all her flips and cartwheels and stuff, whilst the Joker rather sensibly calls in his goons to tommy gun the entire building apart. Due to comic book/film narrative, all of these bullets flying around the place somehow manage to miss Catwoman as she bounces from one piece of scenery to the next. However, she lands on a damaged pillar which proceeds to collapse, sending her tumbling to the floor. The Penguin sees his opportunity and takes it without hesitation. He waddles along to the pathetic looking leather-clad villainess, and kicks her in the face (the Penguin has little regard for all this traditional giving people chances malarky). He then decides to bite her head off. Whilst spending a long time chewing, finding he perhaps took rather too large a portion, the Joker (who's goons have all been crushed by falling pieces of roof, etc.) sneaks up and pulls out a can of some corrosive gas or other. Just as he's about to release the catch type thing, the Penguin realises he's forgotten what's going on around him, turns around, sees the Joker, and at the last moment leaps onto his belly and slides forwards at great speed, thus knocking the Joker off his feet and taking himself nicely out of harm's way. The corrosive gas canister goes off and rots the Joker into a nasty pulp.
Now that he's defeated all his competitors, he can move on to his actual enemy - Batman. This is comparitively simple. He merely kidnaps that butler guy, makes him swallow a tonne of explosives, and presses the remote detonater button when he's serving breakfast. Sorted.
- Psycho Ivan, owner of universe (psychoivan.co.uk)
this match is going to be a toss up between penguin and catwoman. penguin of course will have his army of sea lions, penguins, and polar bears (wielding AK47s with 30 round clips). but in that case catwoman will have an army of jaguars, panthers, lions, tigers (wielding MP5s with 30 round clips), ocelots, ect. ect. ect. the way i see it ridler will be overwhelmed by the hordes of enemies (as he has no henchmen) and jokers henchmen will be destroyed just because humans wielding submachine guns and assault rifles will never be a match for vicious meat/fish eating animals wielding submachine guns and assault rifles. however, the cats wont be able to handle their weapons as well (because of the shape of their paws) they will be wiped out by the penguins army. however, the penguins army will take such huge losses that batman will defeat them even more easily than usual.
- The Other Brian
Gentlemen, the Joker will surely win this battle of Gotham Goliaths.
Oh children, children, how could there ever be any debate? Joker Brand Products (tm) are obviously only one part of this mad mastermind's attempt at market monopoly. This criminal genius/aspiring gatrillionaire businessman would never stop at one line of products. With absolutely no mental stability, he allowed himself to dream, and dream big, after his final scene in Batman 2 (tm). Indeed he has been planning for this event for some time now, knowing in the back of his twisted mind that the day would arrive when he would have to fight the imbusile villains that were to replace him in the battle against Batman.
The truth of the matter is that Joker, through scheming and covert activities, managed to take over the Miller Brewing Company (tm) and thus earn control over all aspects of that company - among which exists Kraft (tm).
Everybody knows that Kraft Macaroni & Cheese (tm) is an irresistable part of daily existence for the entire known universe. Using his ownership of the company, Joker poisons several boxes of the stuff and then provides "free mail samplers" for the entire populace of Gotham City. Catwoman cannot resist the cheesy goodness, especially with all those dairy products added in as main ingredients. Riddler is taken down because, as he has the mentality of a twelve year old (come on, look at that jumpsuit, what adult crazy or not would dare wear it?) he will down the whole box in one sitting and probably steal the box from his neighbor and eat that too. Penguin, although somewhat handicapped by his flippered hands, has grown to love that Kraft Dinner (tm) taste - he was denied it as a child when his parents deserted him, and is now living out the youth he never had.
Not only will Joker take out all of the other villains, he will also eliminate every citizen of Gotham, even that oh-so-rich Bruce Wayne fellow, because nobody can resist a free sample. Yes, Joker wins - no doubt.
There's a reason why they keep needing two villains to equal the awesomeness of one Joker.
- Das Rach
Warped movie villains, with over-financed budgets and tendencies to put style before substance, are vying for the right to end Batman's career? I thought that one already went to Joel Schumacher.
- Matt Bricker
Next Match: A jerk, a square, and a crystal.
Next Match: A jerk, a square, and a crystal.
© 2001, Dragon Hamster Productions, LLC