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What is Grudge Match?

The Scenario

The Spanish galleon Fortuna Loca set sail from California bound for the royal treasury in Madrid. Laden with wealth looted by the Alcalde, this massive tribute would certainly gain favor with the King. However, the ship carried a stowaway set to ruin the fiendish plans.

The galleon was not destined to have a safe journey. After being blown off course in a storm, the galleon fell prey to English privateers under the authority of Prince John. After making a stop in Barbados for repairs, supplies and the off-loading of prisoners, the galleon would make its way to London. The treasure would fund a mighty army that would wrest the throne from King Richard. However, one of his privateers is set to ruin his fiendish plans.

Late at night at port in Barbados, with most of the sailors on shore leave, two figures move about the Fortuna Loca. After the guards are silently bound and gagged, leaving the ship for the taking, the two spot each other.

"Identify yourself," demands the first man. "For I am Robin Hood and I claim this prize for King Richard. At my signal, my men will take this ship and sail it to England for safe keeping. Please leave in due haste, if you please."

"I am sorry but I cannot allow that, señor," responds the second man. "My name is Zorro and this wealth belongs to the good people of California. Once I give the signal, my men will return the stolen wealth. Now leave my ship, por favor."

"Am I to trust a masked man... and a Spaniard, no less?" Robin pulls his sword and aims it at Zorro's chest. "I really must make it a point that you disembark."

"And I am to trust a pirate and a thief? I am afraid you will have to go for a swim." Zorro takes his fencing stance.

The duel is set. So, Paul, which swashbuckling swordsman shall swipe and slash to success?

Zorro, The Mark of Zorro


Robin Hood
Robin Hood, The Adventures of Robin Hood

The Commentary

PAUL: It is clear that Robin Hood is a cut above the rest.

What we basically have here is England v. Spain. Remember the Spanish Armada? On one side, we have Philip II of Spain who is king of the greatest power in the world, awash in New World wealth and armed with an elite army and the largest naval fleet Europe had ever seen. On the other side, we have Elizabeth, the queen of a backwater country with virtually no army and no money. The result: England crushes Spain. And this indignity happens all because Philip wants to marry a life-long "Virgin Queen" - he ain't too bright, is he? Centuries later, England rules an empire that the sun never sets on while Spain is a lackey of France! How is Zorro, representative of a country submissive to the FRENCH, going to beat anyone?

But it gets worse. Zorro's nemeses eventually lost control of Mexico to Antonio López de Santa Anna. Santa Anna, the worst military leader ever, lost Texas to a bunch of ragamuffins and managed to lose EVERY BATTLE in the Mexican-American War, but he defeated these losers. Yet, according to Hollywood, these same losers eventually imprisoned Zorro. I hear that Rutgers is favored by 5 touchdowns over Zorro.

But this result is inevitable as Robin is just the tougher man. Robin takes on the de facto king of England - Zorro faces second-string bureaucrats. Robin roughs it in a forest - Zorro lives a pampered life in a mansion. Robin is a known outlaw constantly being hunted - Zorro has a secret identity so he can live his normal life. With the mask, leather and whip, Zorro seems more like a rich S&M enthusiast which is convenient since he can enjoy the beating he has coming.

JOE: Oh my god, I can't believe you are actually going to sit there and tell me that Zorro is going to lose because the King of Spain did. I'm not sure if you've noticed this, but Zorro is not a sailor in the Spanish Armada. Sure, he's from a Spanish settlement, but then again the U.S. was settled by England. By your logic, John McClane is a pansy just because Prince Charles is. No sir, Zorro's home is a barren country full of rugged bandits and vicious outlaws. He's the toughest hero in a god-forsaken land.

Secondly, Robin Hood is not a tough guy. He prances around in his tights and hangs out with a bunch of hairy guys in the forest. He's basically Little John's bitch. Sure, he's good with a bow, but this is a swordfight. Who, you might ask, is the best swordfighter ever? That's right, Zorro. It'll take about two seconds for there to be a nice red 'Z' in robin's silk tunic. At least the Merry Men will have something to talk about. "Ooooh, little Robby's makin' a new fashion statement, tee-hee."

Now, I'm not sure what kind of kinky things Zorro is into, but I do know this: All good heroes wear a mask. Does Robin Hood have a mask? No, he has a little well-trimmed beard and goatee. If that doesn't scream flamer, I dunno what does. Let's see... black mask, leather, lives in mansion, has playboy alter ego... hmmmm, where have I heard that before. Oh yeah, I know. Batman. That's right, Zorro is the Latin equivalent of the toughest superhero this side of the Rio Grande.

So take your Spanish Armada and your fifty dollar Rutgers bet back to Sherwood Forest and drink some more tea with some tight-wearing mamma's boys. This gold is going back to California and there's nothing Sir Robin of Locksley can do about it.

PAUL: Robin Hood is a flamer? You do realize that his love interest is Maid Marian, not Mister Marian? Despite wearing sissy clothes, he remains a lady-killer (figuratively). Clearly, his masculinity is so incredible that if he wore more befitting attire it would be too overwhelming and he would be a lady-killer (literally) so he makes the noble sacrifice. Now Zero, er, Zorro is a sissy. In the 50s Disney version, Zorro didn't even have a love interest until the second season and she was dumped shortly thereafter for LACK OF INTEREST! Later in the 80s, he's featured in Zorro, the Gay Blade starring super-tan, super-priss George Hamilton. Need I say more?

Of course, Zorro's alternative heroship makes sense. He's from California, the Land of Weird. California, the state populated with the self-important, liposuctioned celebrities of Hollywood who thought a seventh Police Academy movie was a great idea. California, the land of USC and their irritatingly repetitive, repetitive, repetitive fight song for their football team named after a prophylactic. California, the home of San Francisco for goodness sake! You know I see a pattern here. Robin Hood begets Britannica, Zorro begets the state declared clinically insane by the other 49. I blame Zorro for this. He could have stopped it. He must suffer.

As a sign of mercy, Robin will let Zorro keep his mask so he can hide his embarrassment.

JOE: I realize Robin Hood's 'love interest' is Maid Marian, but that is just a cover for him really being her fashion consultant ("Ooooh, Robin, I just love your tights, where did you get them?"). Zorro's latest love interest was the beautiful Elena. When was the last time Maid Marian was played by anybody cute? Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio? Puh-leeze. I freely admit that the one in the Disney version was a fox, but I've never seen a Maid Marian that could hold a candle to Catherine Zeta-Jones.

By the way, I wouldn't be busting on California too much seeing as how William Russell (Robin Hood, 1913) died in California. And poor Douglas Fairbanks:

1920, in the middle of an impressive career he plays Zorro.
1922, he plays Robin Hood. Seventeen years later.... Dead. In California.

Now I'm just speculating here, but it seems to me that the ghost of Zorro killed him after he took the part of Robin Hood. I think the life and times of Douglas Fairbanks is an eerie foreshadowing to the outcome of this match.

Not that it would be hard to guess the outcome of this match. In the fight between a Merry Man in Tights and a Gay Blade, the man who is most proficient with his rapier always comes out on top... and that man is Zorro.

Thanks to the many people that suggested this or a similar match.

The Results

Zorro, The Mark of Zorro

Zorro (2245 - 54.7%)


Robin Hood, The Adventures of Robin Hood

Robin Hood (1858 - 45.3%)

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Voter Comments


Zorro: Before we fight, I propose a toast.

RH: To what?

Zorro: A toast of pure unfiltered mexican water, to victory.

RH: Sure, but after that, I cut your throat out.

(Zorro Prepares the water)

Zorro: To victory.

RH: To Victory!

(RH downs the water, zorro dumps it in a nearby plant. Soon, RH is sprawled on the floor shaking wildly. So without even lifting his sword, Zorro wins again)

- Spooner- Yeah I know Zorro isn't Mexocan but close enough

ROTW Silver Medal GrudgieTM

Now, to figure out this match, we have to look at the translations of the competitors' names. "Zorro" is spanish for "Fox". "Robin" is enlgish for "a Red-Breasted Bird". Now, if we shorten that definition, we get "Red". That means, logically, that Robin Hood is the same as Red Hood, which is obviously very close to Red Riding Hood. And, of course, a fox is a close relative to a wolf. This means that the match is an indirect version of Little Red Riding Hood(tm). Everyone knows the outcome of THAT fairy tale. The wolf (a cross-dressing pedaphile) eats Red Riding Hood's grandmother, and is in turn killed by the Hunter/Woodsman/Dick Cheney (depending on the version). However, Dick Cheney is not here to save Red Riding Hood's ass. That means she will have to defend herself. I believe that if the wolf can get her grandmother, he can get LRRH as well. So, the outcome of this match is Zorro eats Robin Hood, and delivers his basket of goodies to the Californians. No, wait. He EATS the goodies and takes the gold back to the forest. No, he eats the gold and gives Robin Hood to the Californians. Wait, thats not right...

- sPeciAL eD

ROTW Bronze Medal GrudgieTM

Zorro's nothing but a pansy in the closet. Remember the series not too long ago? This broad keeps throwing herself at him, but he repeatedly stands her up for the chance to bend that fat guard over and cut that Z thing on his ass. What's that? Marking his territory?

- zorro in the closet

Paul, you post-whore, Spain is NOT France's lackey! And if you disagree, talk to my Spanish great-grandfather: he likes to crush walnuts on the table with his palms.

- Saru-Kun

Are we forgetting that Zorro, as his regular, aristocratic form, was labeled "the most inept swordsman in California"?(TM)(damn you, Disney) And in one swordfight, he proved it! He had to hold back, or everyone would know that he was Zorro. This match is too predictable. Zorro holds back as Robin Hood proceeds to kick his ass. As he is doing this, he gets confident that Zorro is a goner, which is the main weakness of all Robin Hoods, past and present. At that moment, Zorro kicks in and catches Robin off guard. Since there are no merry men to be found, Robin is struck down with a huge Z to the gut. Perfect MK(TM)Fatality(TM). Then its on to England to wow Maid Marian with his "Gay Blade"(TM)

- Wolf Fang Fist

Unfortunately, the fight hasn't started yet, as Robin Hood had to call time out to go and change into his special duelling tights. However, we have Little John here with us now: John, when can Robin Hood be expected back?

"D-uh, don't you worry, never fear,
Robin Hood will soon be here."

Fascinating. Well, while we're waiting, let's do a little comparison of the two opponents:

Background: Sir Robin of Locksley was a Saxon Knight living high on the feudal hog until his social conscience made him revolt against the evil government. Don Diego was a spoiled-brat rich wastrel, sort of a Californian version of Dodi El-Faed, until his social conscience made him revolt against the government. Seems almost even, but I'll give this to Robin because it takes more guts to revolt against Claude Rains, an authentically creepy guy who terrorized a whole town in The Invisible Man, than to revolt against that governor whose name I can't even remember.

Brains: Have to give this one to Zorro. Long before Bruce Wayne, Don Diego perfected the "secret identity" gimmick, allowing him to fight evil in his spare time while still enjoying the fruits of his rich, pampered existence by day. Sir Robin, on the other hand, gave up his wealth and went to live in the woods with a bunch of smelly guys who laugh loudly and strum guitars. What's more, he came out of hiding to attend an archery contest that he knew in advance was set up as a trap, just because he couldn't resist the chance to shoot off his arrows (insert sexual-frustration joke here).

Babes: If Catherine Zeta-Jones is so damn hot, then why does she have to settle for Gordon Gekko? This aging starlet is clearly nothing more than a creation of Murray the miracle makeup man. Besides, she was with Antonio Banderas, who played the protege of Zorro, not the original Zorro, who would never dream of marrying Melanie Griffith. If you restrict the BABE factor (tm) to the Errol Flynn and Tyrone Power movies, it comes out pretty even again: Olivia De Havilland was a definite babe in Adventures of Robin Hood, as was the somewhat sluttier Linda Darnell in Mark of Zorro. I give a slight edge to Errol because he actually got to play a scene in Olivia's bedroom, which is as close as you could get to getting some under the old Production Code (tm).

Theme Music: Robin scores big here. Erich Wolfgang Korngold's music score for The Adventures of Robin Hood won an Oscar (tm) and has since been ripped off by every single John Williams score from Star Wars to Harry Potter. The best-known Zorro music is that dumbass TV themesong calling him "A bold renegade who carves a 'Z' with his blade."

Opponents: Robin fought his biggest duel against Basil Rathbone, playing Prince John's evil right-hand-man. Zorro fought his biggest duel against Basil Rathbone, playing the governor's evil right-hand-man. Not much difference there. However, Robin gets the edge, because when he fought Rathbone, in 1938, Rathbone was not yet playing Sherlock Holmes. By 1940, Rathbone had already played Holmes in two movies, so it's easy to see how Zorro could beat him: His reflexes were shot from all that cocaine-snorting and putting up with Watson's lame questions. I deduce that Robin is the better fighter. (Amazing, Holmes!)

Well, it seems that Robin Hood should win...if only he can show up! Little John, where the heck is your boss?

"D-uh, he can't make it, but he sent a substitute Robin Hood..."

"Yeth, onetht and truly, I am Robin Hood! Watch! Yoicks and away!" [Wump!]
"Yoicks...and...away..." [Wump!]

- Captain Corcoran

There is a reason why you cannot remember the name of Zorro's nemesis: it keeps changing in each new movie and TV show. That's why we used the generic "Alcalde". - Paul

Let's take a look at the attributes of these herso by pairing them with attributes of superheros. Zorro has a cape like Batman, a whip like Indiana Jones, and a sword like Luke Skywalker. Robin Hood has tights like Robin, a bow-and-arrow like Hawkeye, and a dagger like some looney. So we can already see that Zorro Shares attributes with Batman and Robin Hodd shares attributes with the Boy Wonder, it is clear that Robin Hood is Zorro's bitch.

- Tom the Enchanter

Alas, we're going to have to toss this match out: neither Robin Hood nor Zorro can lose, nor can either allow tyranny to flourish (even in another country). So this is a standard superhero team-up in progress.

After three minutes of sword-play, we can expect this exchange:

Zorro: Aye caramba, you certainly know how to handle a sword!
Hood: You're no slouch yourself, old bean!

As soon as that happens, the rest is formula. The Big Plan! The ego-conflicts! The saving each other from certain doom! The grudging respect they develop for each other! It goes without saying that their alliance will result in the defeat of both William the Conqueror and Francisco Franco (I'm still not clear what year this takes place in), the people of California will see a return of 50% on their investment, and Gleek does something that makes all the Superfriends laugh.

- Lou the Inscrutable

What a strange match, an English hero from the early 13th century fighting a Mexican hero from the 19th over a galleon from the 16th. You guys have twisted the space-time continuum into a pretzel for this one.

But, since this is the match that is at hand, it has to be decided. So, let's look at some of the factors involved.

Both characters have been portrayed by quite a number of actors. To try to equalize things, let's consider only the best actors who have played the parts. Douglas Fairbanks as Zorro and Errol Flynn as Robin Hood. Both were well-known for playing swashbucklers. And they had roughly equal swordsmanship skill (though none of them were actually as good as Basil Rathbone - the best fencer and swordsman in all Hollywood history). Errol Flynn was far the more flamboyant, even late in life (Peter O'Toole's character in "My Favorite Year" was based on Flynn in his later life) but Douglas Fairbanks had a longer life and could be said to have more endurance. In short, they cancel each other out.

However, that is not the case in terms of weaponry. It has been established that Zorro used something like a long sword, though it seemed a bit on the thin side. Then you have Robin Hood's sword - a Saxon broadsword. As clearly demonstrated on the "Stonehenge" episode of the PBS series "Secrets of the Dead", such a sword was big, heavy, and excellent for cutting things. In this fight, Zorro could take one hit at most from such a sword, while his long sword would be less damaging to Robin who could take a couple hits. All Robin has to do to win is either get Zorro in the neck or sword arm and the fight is over.

As for the "babe" factor one of the commentators invoked, I'm afraid we can't count Catherine Zeta Jones. That is because her character's love interest in the film was not the *original* Zorro, but a mere replacement. Sorry to burst the bubble there.

- The Demented Astronomer

If I'm not mistaken, we're allowed to draw on any incarnation of the fighters in question.

Homer Simpson: What would Zorro do?

[imagines Zorro facing the colonel, who is sitting in a lawn chair.]

[Zorro pulls out his sword. The colonel calmly shoots him dead.]

[anguished] Zorro!

And since 'The Simpsons Must Win,' so does the amicable archer.

- Zoelef (No, no. It's a "Z." I am Zoelef. "Z" for Zoelef!)

And now the rebuttal...

"I hereby declare you, [Zorro,] to be the new King of England!"


Anyone who has seen The Poke of Zorro knows that Robin Hood will not rebel against the rightful heir to King Richard's throne.

(shh... Here come the Ninjas!)

- Todd McMahon-Helmsley

The way our fans can use the same facts to support totally opposite positions is amazing and this isn't the only example in this match. Remember, there are still jobs available in the Canadian government for you. - Eds.
It's cute how Joe assumes it's a clean fight.

Robin Hood is considered a thief, and all thieves are "cheats". He's a thug who relies on stealth to set himself up into position then use force to achieve his goals aided by surprise. While he doesn't have stealth this time, he does have arrows, and an unlimited supply thanks to 1940's hollywood. Plus he has a hoarde of Merry Men he will no doubt feel no guilt in using as living shields between himself and his close-range impaired foe. I suspect he would even take the time to climb up to the lookout bucket to maximise his one- sided advantage. Robin Hood has always been "cheap" against King John's lackeys, and he certainly wouldn't change his ways...

- He, the Mortal, and the Misery

The sharp sounds of steel against steel echoes throughout the Barbadian night. The two rouges move as one in a deadly dance, their blades flashing in the chilly air like silver dragonflies. Robin’s face is strained and he is sweating. He manages to keep the masked one away, but his skill with the blade is inferior, and his sword is too heavy. El Zorro moves with lightning speed, constantly smiling.

"You are a worthy foe," Zorro said. "But alas, you cannot win."

Robin grunts and locks his sword against Zorro’s foil. "It is a good night to die, fox, and I still have a few tricks up my sleeve!"

The English rolls past Zorro’s thrust and parries the light, almost playful attack that follows. He glides in under Zorro’s guard and graze him over the leg. Zorro let’s out a groan from the brief pain.

"A worthy foe indeed," he hiss. "Very well, English. If that is how you want to play."

Zorro doubles his efforts and attacks in a flurry of thrusts and swings. Robin feels a sharp pain in the arm as the tip of Zorro’s sword pierce through his tunic, giving him a bleeding but not serious wound.

"Now we are even," Zorro says and continues his vicious attack. The duel slowly takes them back to the ship. They battle across the vessel and finally the man in black sweeps Robin’s blade aside and kicks him hard in the stomach. Robin staples back, and realises that he has no fight left in him. Zorro smiles and he close in on the defeated bandit.

But suddenly Robin sees his chance. In a last desperate effort he cuts a nearby rope off with his sword. A heavy block suddenly falls and strikes Zorro’s blade away. The weapon hit the deck and glides into the shadows.

"I have you now, Spaniard!" Robin says and gets up. Zorro backs away, but realise that he will not survive this.

Suddenly a sharp bang is heard. A shudder goes through Robin’s body and he looks down on his chest where his blood is pumping out a brand new hole.

"But…" he whispers and slumps to the deck. Robin Hood has fallen.

Zorro looks around and discovers a dark figure in the shadows. It steps closer and revels a young man holding a smoking pistol in his right hand and Zorro’s sword in the left. The shadows still covers his face, but Zorro finds the figure disturbingly familiar. The shadowy man throws the useless gun away and carelessly lobs the sword back to it’s owner.

Zorro catches the weapon with ease. "Who are you," he ask.

A chuckle escapes the dark shape, who steps forward and reveals…

"You!" Zorro gasp.

"You never expected to see me again, did you, de la Vega?" Dread Pirate Roberts says and dazzles a smile.

"You cowardly dog! You would shoot your own countryman from the shadows?" Zorro says, enraged.

"There now, did you truly expect me to let you or that Lincon-green blunt over there to waltz off with the gold that is rightfully mine?"

Roberts ask. "You know me better then that."

"You defeated me once, at CBUB," Zorro says grimly and lifts his blade. "I will not be defeated by you once more."

"I was hoping that you would say so," Dread Pirate Roberts says and draws his own blade.

And so the sharp sounds of steel against steel echoes throughout the Barbadian night once again.

- Ghost

Let's look at this by the facts, shall we?
FACT: America defeated Spain
FACT: Britain defeated Spain
FACT: America defeated Britain
FACT: Mexico defeated Spain
FACT: America defeated Mexico
FACT: Errol Flynn was Australian (British); Guy Williams was American
FACT: Robin Hood is known for archery; Zorro is known for fencing
FACT: Zorro has appeared on The Simpsons; Robin Hood has not
Conclusion: Zorro kicks Robin's pansy-@ss off the starboard bow.

UNRELATED FACT: FRANCE also defeated Spain... whats up with that?

- The Brainchild

Aah, two masters of finesse. Two dashing swashbucklers. Two mysterious outlaws, repeatedly overcoming astonishing odds by skill- at-arms, cunning and resourcefulness.

Zorro is going down faster than Divine Brown for a hundred-dollar bill.

I'll put it very simply, children. Robin Hood kills people with a bow and arrow. It doesn't matter what kind of armour or weapons they have, how fast they are, or even - uniquely - if they are a main character. Robin Hood is perhaps the only hero who carries a sword and yet can shoot his nemesis dead.

Zorro, on the other hand, has a sword. Moreover, it's a rapier. A heavier blade wielded by a man of his skill might just be able to deflect a couple of arrows, postponing his death by a few seconds. They're on a ship, so admittedly Zorro has a chance of getting close and using his amazing swordsmanship abilities - but Robin is an expert at the arts of evasion and concealment (read: running away and hiding), and will be able to get away. After that, they just hunt each other down - and Zorro takes an arrow to the throat.

Oh yeah, and the leather-masked-playboy thing? Green Arrow would have made Batman his bitch long ago, if he wasn't too busy shagging the Black Canary. Seriously, one of them has a quasi-paternal relationship with a boy named Dick, the other is doing the best thing in fishnets since the Rocky Horror Picture Show. Which do you respect more?

- Will

Where's the "Both Skewered by an Angry Beowulf-Achilles Team" Option?

- The Saint

As Robin Hood prepares to fight the fight that will end his life anyway, a second Zorro steps out from the shadows. This Zorro, being the second Zorro from "The Mask Of Zorro" movie, draws his sword. Then, a surprisingly silent Zorro steps out from another shadow, making sure that his mask is applied in such a way that Robin Hood won't be able to tell that it is actually Bernardo, the first Zorro's faithful assistant, in his traditional "Helpin' Out The Boss" costume.

Robin looks at the two new competitors. "Oh, come on!" he shouts. "Three to one? Not fair!"

The first Zorro shakes his head. "My sincere apologies, prince of thieves, but this match is between you and Zorro. And as I've said in my TV show, 'We Zorros must stick together.'"

And so, Robin Hood, the best *archer* in Merry Olde England, bravely attempts a one on three fencing match against the three best swordsmen in all of California! Needless to say, it's not long before Robin Hood dies, and many Hollywood executives have an idea for the next Zorro movie.

- Afgncaap5

I'm goning to say this slowly, so he has time to run.


Point 1. He takes the side of Zorro against a great English hero. This *alone* is bad enough to warrant him a loss but i'll add more weight to my arguement.

Point 2. He insults the heir to my country's throne. Bad move. Was it not Tyler Durden who said that tall, lean guys are the hardest to beat because they never go down? Charles is 6'2" and lean.

Point 3. Association to a previous loser does, i repeat *does* mean that some of that loss rubs off on you. See any past Grudge-Match (TM) for numerous sources. e.g. "Star Wars must win (TM)", "Star Trek must lose(TM)", the French army (and therefore anyone French) Always lose(TM)".

Point 4. He calls Robin Hood gay. Bad Move Part 2. I can even negate his point without resorting to overtly heterosexual "Don't call him a shirt-lifter!" chest beating. Here's why: Hood was not his last name. Oh no, he was Robin of Loxley... he had a brotherhood. Therefore he was 'of the hood'. You go anywhere near a 'hood' and start calling people gay you're goinging to be turned into chunky salsa before you can say "Hotbranch!"

So there we have it, Robin Hood in 2 minutes 10 seconds

- Si (Footballius Hooliganus)

First off, why is this match black and white(tm)? Nostalgia? I'm guessing that it was an underhanded attempt to give one of these contestants some sort of home-field advantage. That doesn't come off, since they've both now been brought into the world of Technicolor(tm). But I digress...

First off, As an actual fencer, the presence of Eroll Flynn in this match makes me sick! It takes the guy more than three seconds to lunge. He's slower than the fat cops(tm) in the Matrix. Even I could whup him!

Zorro's not much better off. Scene: Generic Cave.

Teacher guy: Do you know how to use that thing?

Zorro: Sure. The pointy end goes into the other guy.

But wait, you say. That was before his rigorous, jedi-like training, you say. Yeah and what did this training consist of? PUSH-UPS! <angrytirade>Since when do you need push-ups to fence?!!!<angrytirade/> Zorro's teacher plainly knew no more about swords than his student.

I'm hearby boycotting this match till Inigo Montoya and The Dread Pirate Roberts arrive and liberate these wimps from their intestines.

- Antidisestablishmentairianism

Well, I'm no expert, but the range of a whip can't compare to the range of a Longbow. "But Zorro will just shoot him with a pistol!!" But Zorro abhorred firearms, considering them to be unhonorable. Robin, on the other hand, was a realist who would use whatever means needed to win the day. So I foresee an arrow through Zorro's throat here.

Also look at the allies that Robin has vs Zorro. Little John may not be too bright, but he is a mountain of a man who could crush your skull with no problem. Zorro has a fat guy who can't speak. Robin has a feisty Friar who's either one of the best swordsman in England or a master at the quarterstaff. Zorro has a good looking Spanish noblewoman who gets in more trouble than she's worth. Robin has his merry men, personably trained in the Longbow (a difficult weapon to master) and the longsword. Zorro has a few peasants who have wooden pitchforks, rocks, and clubs. Once again, no contest.

But Robin's ace-in-the-hole is Ivanhoe. If you watch the History Channel, and saw their version of Ivanhoe, you'd see that Robin and Ivanhoe did work together to save the English Monarchy and her people from Norman oppression. And let's face it, Ivanhoe would kick Zorro's pampered butt in a heartbeat. Fencing foils just don't pierce plate armor very well.

All of this aside, it's the Scarlet Pimpernel who will win the day. He'll wait till the fight between Robin and Zorro is over, and the victor is exhausted, then run them through. After all:

They seek him here,
they seek him there..
Those Frenchies seek him everywhere!
Is he in heaven
or is he in hell.
That elusive, Scarlet Pimpernel!

P.S. Now, if we're talking George Hamilton's Zorro Vs Kevin Costner's Robin, then I hope they both suffer truly horrible deaths for their respective blasphemy.

- Old Man of the Sea

In the words of George Hamilton, my reason for chosing Zorro is simply this: "His clothes are bold, his mind uncanny. Give him your gold, or he'll WHIP your fanny!"

Like any prissy English guy could stand up to the sheer masculinity of a true Spanish nobleman like Don Diego De La Vega (Or Alejandro De La Vega, depending on which version you watch.)

I've read the book Robin Hood, and anytime Robin had to stand on his own, he got his butt whipped: Little John got him on the bridge, Will Scarlet got him after that with a tree that he pulled out of the ground, and Friar Tuck got him after that when Robin was asking for his help. Then, Robin, in true co-dependant fashion, asked all of these butt-whoopers to join his club, which THEY DID! Clearly Robin enjoys getting whipped more than Zorro, so the victor will clearly be Zorro, leaving robin to ask himself, "Who was that masked man?"

- Heidi

First of all, nice touch with the Retro-Black & White (TM) format...even if both of these films were "colorized" (not worthy of TM) long ago.

Lamentably, neither of these once great chandelier-swingers will capture the prize. As with many legends, modern interpretation has, shall we say, besmirched their reputations. The role of Robin Hood was, arguably, the worst thing to ever happen to Errol Flynn, as it typecast him, Bela Lugosi-like, for most of the remainder of his career (witness films like "Captain Blood" as proof). The Zorro that you have pictured, meanwhile, sees action today in late-evening reruns on the DISNEY channel. 'Nuff said.

Even more recent interpretations have been none too kind to Mr. Hood and the Big Z, thanks to Kevin "The Accent-less Wonder" Costner and Antonio "Is Too Sexy?" Banderas, respectively.

Hence, here is how I see this little tete-a-tete (TM) progressing: While Robin and Zorro are playing whirl-and-parry, the ship is ransacked and claimed by a third mysterious masked figure in black, who, upon making off with the loot, is last seen scaling a steep mountainside by rope. His only calling card left behind is a scrap of parchment with the initials "DPR", a sure sign of...The Dread Pirate Roberts.

- RoboGoober98 (reminding you to NEVER make a bet with a Sicilian when death is on the line...)

This comes down to simple Grudge Logic.

Zorro is a Spaniard. Inigo Montoya is also a Spaniard. Inigo Montoya, despite having The RageTM on his side, was bested in a fair fight by Westley, the Man in Black. Westley was played by Carey Elwes, who also played Robin Hood in "Men in Tights."

By concatenation, Zorro has no chance against Robin Hood.

Just don't ask me to link either of these guys to Kevin Bacon.

- Eric Snyder II

Robin Hood was played in the movies by Errol Flynn, and a few years later Zorro was played by Tyrone Power. Most of you geeks probably don’t know that in real life Flynn and Power had a long-lasting affair, in which Power was Flynn’s “bitch”.

So, when they meet, Zorro, uh, surrenders immediately.

- Elizabeth Lake

Robin Hood versus Zorro. Now there's a toughie. Well let's see. Robin Hood, born Robin of Locksely, lives in the woods with a bunch of hairy, unhygenic, homosexuals, whose help Robin calls upon numerous times. Zorro lives in his private estate, fights solo (and does very well may I add) and has something reminiscent of the Bat Cave. Zorro is good the his sword, Robin with the bow and arrows. Both have no love life, despite what all of you say and are probably impotent due to all that horseback riding. Who will win? Quite simple. Both of them DIE!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! But how, you may ask. While thrusting ,Tu-cheing and all that fanciful jibe a dark spectre, face hidden by a mask calls out to both of them. Both cease fighting immediatly and discover the voice to be that of........"The Loooooonnnneeeee Ranger"(TM, of course). That's right. Similar to Zorro and Robin Hood alike this man of virtue needs neiher sword nor bow. Nay, he uses his trusty Six-shooter(TM) and he does so with gusto (hee hee, that rhymes)teaching those Spanish and British pansies that nothing beats Good Ol' American Lead Projectiles (TM) (some may have the nerve to call them bullets) After eliminating the two, he loads the Gold onto a train of hired carriages and leads them off into the sunset, shouting " HI-HO Siiiillllvvveeeeerrrr!!! (TM)

- Bratwurst4ever

Actually, the Lone Ranger was one of the finalists for this match. - Eds.

Now, as proven in past grudge matches, ALL PAST ROLES ARE ACCOUNTED FOR. For that simple reason, Robin does not stand a chance. The best of the recent Robin Hood movies, was Robin Hood: Men in Tights.As good a movie as this was, it still does not stand a chance when placed against the Zorro Wannabes. What are these "wannabes" you ask?

1.The Princess Bride: Insert Dread Pirate Wes, ahem, Roberts here. Don't give me the "Wesley beat Zorro on CBUB!" Crup, Zorro was cheated...

2. Batman: I can hear the fanboys out there crying for blood as I write this, and I know that the mob with torches out there isn't here for the party...but come on. Zorro was around LONG before Batman was, and most of Batman's tricks came from Zorro's old playbook. Everything that is Batman, Zorro did before.

3. The WB cartoon parodies, and Mario Brothers. That's right, besides the Warner Brothers cartoons, at one point in the Mario Brothers series, they did a tribute episode to Zorro. With Mario as "Zero" and Luigi as "Zero + 1". Last time I checked, all Robin Hood had in that variety were Jerry and...that little pipsqueak mouse that sometimes went with him. They also had Daffy Duck, but that episode was spent screwing up in front of Porky Pig, who did not believe he was Robin Hood. Daffy got killed, and at the end, joined Porky as "Friar Duck."

Zorro also has Hanna Barbera on his side: Purple Pumpernickle.

That said, lets bring out In the BOOKS, the ACCEPTED story line of Zorro, Zorro kicked some Californian Governor Arse all the way to Spain. When it came to the usage of the blade, none were greater in legend. He was the ORIGINAL progenitor of the "Action Comedy".

Basically, the fight ends the minute Mario does the super-jump onto Robin's head...and Little John falls in the inch high water screaming "I CAN'T SWIM!"

- David, Master of Disaster

Hmmm....I should tell you that I take fencing. It is a very nice sport and I gotta say that with a bit of work you can get very proficient with a sword (though I'm not that good yet).

However, you're gonna have to be pretty damn fine to stop an arrow with one.

Read back over the scenario again. What does Robin (wait a guy is named Robin and the other is a black-mask-wearing guy in a mansion...hmm...) do as a threatening action? He points an arrow at Zorro's chest. And Robin never misses (well, I think he did once, but that was with a crappy arrow and all...anyway...).

From what I can tell, Zorro will have to cover at least several meters in the time it takes Rob to move his thumb and index finger a fraction of a centimeter. I suppose it could be possible that Zorro survives the shot and runs through Rob before he can reload (espacially with the hero-factor) but he'll be moving slowly enough for Robin to fend him off (swords like Zorro's aren't usually instant-kill weapons).

So even if Zorro does dispatch Robby, he'll be moving to slowly to stop the rest of the merry men. He may escape over the side of the boat, but he'll fail his mission either way.

So in any case, Robin wins (even if he dies)

- Snicker

Frankly, I don't remember Robin Hood ever killing anyone. Now, this can be good, like The A-Team, or this can be bad, like American Gladiators. Zorro, however, had been carving his "Z" into people's hind quarters since day uno, so if it comes down to toughness, Zorro would win this fight. Or do I smell a Mel Brooks Jihad...

- Grudge-Pops™: They plump while you stab 'em!

OK. First things first, lets go with more recent actors who played the roles.

Robin Hood: Cary Elwes (Robin Hood: Men in Tights)
Zorro: Antonio Banderas (The Mask of Zorro)

Now Cary Elwes also played Wesley (not THAT Wesley) AKA, the Dread Pirate Roberts, and beat Andre the Giant (Princess Bride).

Andre the Giant kicked the crap out of Hulk Hogan (if you saw Wrestlemania 3 you know it for a fact). Hulk Hogan kicked the crap out of Sylvester Stalone (Rocky 3). Sly was in Assasins with Antonio Banderas. See how they tie together? Good, cause I don't :-P

By The Way - Banderas' last movie was Spy Kids, he pays the Father who has to be saved by his children (wuss).

So, what I'm reading here is that Zorro (Banderas) who has to be saved by his own children because he and his wife can't take care of themselves is going to beat Robin Hood (Elwes) who readily bestest Andres the Giant?? I think not! This is all Robin Hood, to the pain! :)

- --Vinnie M.

What do you mean, "He's good with a bow, but this is a swordfight." That is one of the dumbest comments I've ever heard. In the Hundred Years War the French fought an enemy who was outnumbered two to one, and the next time three to one. Their greatest knights were crushed. By peasants. Why? THEY HAD LONGBOWS! Who was that enemy? ENGLAND! Oh, and America was under British rule because it was settled and peopled by who? THE BRITISH, DIPWAD!

P.S Anyone who lives in an age of guns, but chooses to wield a sword instead, AND WEARS BLACK LEATHER IN MEXICO IN THE DAY ALL YEAR ROUND must be an idiot!

- a seriously ticked off Noman

Zorro wins the duel, hands down. He’s a swordsman. Robin Hood is an archer. No contest.

However, what if the contestants were engaged in a Biathlon of Butchery (TM pending) wherein they had to exhibit their skills at both swordplay and archery? I think Robin Hood would emerge victorious, since he has at least dabbled with swordplay, while Zorro has never had any time for archery, because it’s so difficult to make a “Z” by shooting arrows into another person's body. If his name began with a lower case “i” or “j” he might be more inclined to try archery, just so he could put the appropriate dots over the letters.

But really, who cares about their swordmanship or archery skills? What if there was an evening wear competition? Zorro wears black silk, and everybody knows that black is very slimming. On the other hand, Robin Hood has a great set of legs, because you know he wouldn’t be caught dead wearing tights in the company of “merry men” if he didn’t have the stems to pull it off in style.

It would be a draw, unless Zorro let Robin wear something from his closet…

I remain,

Fashion consultant to Sherwood Forest,

Bellykeg Greg

- Fashion Consultant to Sherwood Forest,Bellykeg Greg

You know...First, I was going to say that I'm too young to try and analyze this match. Then I remembered that I have a couple of Robin Hood books to work with.

Oh yes, Robin will win, and I'll tell you why: Experience. Besides being exceptional at fighting with swords, quarterstaffs, and the bow and arrow, he's had experience on a ship. My research (I can't believe I did research. I barely did research when i was in college) shows that Robin Hood was once on a ship...and what did he do? When the ship was attacked by pirates, he had himself tied to the deck, and just kept shooting arrows at the pirates until they were all dead. So, on the scale of Ship Experience:

Robin 1, Zorro 0.

And if that fails, Robin can just set his Merry Men on Zorro. (Stop thinking like that. They're straight, just...merry.)

- Scotty J.

Now, this is a crowd pleaser. I can picture it when some dopey villager from a nearby settlement finds them fighting (and one will, trust me):

"Quick, Zorro and Robin Hood are fighting! [thinks quickly] Seats are... oh, two-fifty each, let's say..."

Ironically, this will make Robin lose the match. See, due to the sudden shift from colour as seen in most previous matches to black and white, Robin is now in washed-out grey, as opposed to the immediantly recognizable green. Zorro, being in black, is about the same. Observe that villager again:

"My God, some wanker is trying to kill Zorro! EVERYONE, COME QUICK!!!"

In any other scenario, Robin would probably win. But in view of the above, Zorro comes out on top.

Besides, Zorro is ten times cooler than Robin Hood.

- Mixmaster Flibble

The winner must be Zorro. He is none other than the corporate front for Wal-mart, scourge of low prices, slasher of sales, and bringer of the blue-light specials! As Zorro stands before his enemy he thinks aloud....

"If Wal-mart be on our side, who could possibly be on theirs?"

- Shaft

My initial reaction is that Robin doesn't last 20 seconds against Zorro's steal. After all, Robin is a bowman, and Zorro has spent years practicing his swordplay. I see Robin Hood's tights full of "Z"s and his merry-men searching for a new Homoerotic-Leader(tm). However this simplistic argument of superior swordplay is obviously not fitting, given the Grudge Match tradition.

Essentially this comes down to allies. After all- what is a Grudge Match without allies?!?

The merry-men are obvious candidates to help out Robin, but this is Barbados- England is thousands of miles away. As for Zorro, he has no sidekicks (unless one counts Antonio Banderas, but then he is Zorro too... let's not go there). So where will they find allies, you ask? Although normal allies cannot be found, I have found appropriate subsitutes: Fashion Allies(tm).

Off in Never-Neverland, Peter Pan hears of a fellow green-tights- wearing-hero in trouble and with a little help from Tinkerbell's dust he is in Barbados at Robin Hood's side. Zorro is in a bind, as The Pan is in his element- Fighting on a sailing vessel! Nothing can stop him as he flies through the rigging and cuts off pieces of Zorro's clothes. Robin Hood stands off to the side and laughs an Annoying- British-Laugh(tm).

Zorro fears he is doomed, as he blindly swings around his sowrd attempting to hit the little dagger-wielding boy. This seems to be the end of Zorro...

But wait! The Pirate Ship Revenge is never far from Barbados this time of year , and luckily for Zorro it just so happens to be docked next to the Fortuna Loca!

As the vicious Pan goes for the deathblow, out of nowhere appears The Man in Black, aka The Dread Pirate Roberts, aka Westly, aka The Greatest Swordsman To Ever Live!

We all know how the Man in Black feels about masks- "They're terribly comfortable. I think everyone will be wearing them in the future." Seeing Zorro's mask being desecrated by the relentless attack of Peter Pan, The Man In Black swiftly dispatches the green-tighted boy with a sword-hilt to the head. He turns to Robin, thinks for a moment of how he can unlethally defeat him, then realizes that HE IS Robin Hood. "We are in tights!"

The space-time rift created by Cary Elwes realizing he is more than one person at once engulfs the entire island of Barbados and everyone perishes.

- Mr JT

Zorro. All the way. Why, you ask? Simple

Zorro is the Man in Black, with cape and mask. He is the Dread Pirate Roberts, that is, Westley.

Robin Hood is now seen as one of the most evil men in the history of legend. Sure, he originally took from the robbers and gave to the robbed, but today, he is a champion of poverty rather than property. He now is the medeival equivalent of the IRS.

We know, of course, that Death beat Taxes. We also know that Westley was able to defeat Death itself (OK, OK, he was only mostly dead, but he was still dead). So, therefore, Zorro beats Death which beats Robin Hood. Zorro wins QED.

- James

"You shall die a slow and painful death!" snickers Robin with a grin.

Zorro attacks, silent.

"Parry, parry, thrust, thrust, parry." Robin yawns.

Suddenly Tom Green appears.

"I am Scuba Hood! I steal form the poor and give to the rich!"

Zorro looks at Robin. Robin looks at Zorro. Hysterical laughter.

Robin wets his tights. Zorro cries and falls to the ground.

Tom, bewildered, asks, "Have I found someone who thinks I'm funny?"

Robin looks at Zorro. Laughs.

"Isn't he the guy will one testicle?"

Hysterical laughter.

Drew Barrymore: " Don't worry Tom. You can go and lock yourself in your hotel room and cry just like I did."

Meanwhile: Zorro and Robin steal all the money, by an island, and watch re-runs of Laverne and Shirley.

Mel Brooks enters. "Faglers?"

"No. Just merry."

- ticklewigglejigglepickle

This match is just a little too gray for me to decide.

- rcalicea

What every one here seems to be forgetting is the power of a good name and the people that will rally around this.

Firstly we have Zoro…. Also commonly known as the “Masked Marauder” TM, which could be easily taken as a professional wrestler. What type of person supports this athletic and exciting sport? That’s right hicks, hillbillies and rednecks…. Weapon of choice? Shotguns and automatic weapons. Mode of transportation? Fourwheel drives and other environmentally unsound vehicles.

Next we have Robin Hood… Also known as “Robbin’ Hood” TM, the tag of a bad white rapper. Followers? White suburban kids in baggy pants wearing their hats the wrong way. Weapon of choice? Replica pistols. Mode of Transportation? VW Golf bought with trust fund cash or mom’s Jeep Cherokee.

Now the country boys would open a can of “Whoop Ass” TM on these punks without a reason and now they have to defend the proud heritage of their second favorite sport (Nascar, duh) they will tromp all over the unmobile tripping over the hem of their pants punks.

While I don’t watch Wrestling I hate bad Rap.

- Milo Bloom

Two muscular men in tights grappling with each other? This has gotta be the work of Richard Simmons.

- duanage

It just occured to me, that being gay, has nothing to do with your swordfighting-abilities! Maybe Robin Hood was a gay little man in tights, but he sure knew how to use a sword!

And in all the movies and series and whatever starring da Hood, he fights royal guards and such. The Zorro series and films, shows Da Z's opponents as drunken, lazy and pretty much useless soldiers, stationed in a God-forsaken outpost of total boredom, so my vote went to the pansy from England, because he is the more skilled of the two.

(The Kevin Kostner Hood, wasn't Gay, he was just a plain disgusting fat ****!)

- Dustflyer of Locksley

This has got to be one of the toughest matches I've ever seen. Hero vs. hero, swashbuckler vs. swashbuckler, preening actors vs. preening actors, dubious historical figure vs. dubious literary figure. How's a fellow to choose?

On Zorro's side we have Antonio Banderas, Anthony Hopkins, George Hamilton squared, Tyrone Powers, and numerous lesser-knowns. On Robin Hood's side we have Douglas Fairbanks, Errol Flynn, Sean Connery, Kevin Costner, Walt Disney, and numerous lesser-knowns. If we go by star-power alone, then Robin Hood clearly takes the match.

But were these stars' movies any good? In the case of Robin Hood, nothing good has been put on film since Disney's cartoon. Robin and Marian was a painful flop and Mr. Costner's effort painfully affected. Anthony Hopkin's Zorro would have kicked Connery's Zorro's ass, and Costner and Banderas are both such a pair of preening nancyboys that not only would there be no contest, there would be no contest! We're talking about a couple of guys who can't even make a fist right.

Meanwhile, say what you will about George Hamilton, the truth is that Zorro the Gay Blade is one of the best movies ever: great action, great comedy. If Zorro's swishbuckling brother Bunny Wigglesworth can kick ass, then how much tougher must Zorro himself be? And what does the merry rogue of Sherwood have to offer in defence? Nothing more than "Robin Hood: Men in Tights." If ZtGB is up against RHMiT, then Zorro wins hands down. Cary Elwes will be too busy admiring George Hamilton's blinding tan to put up a fight.

The only possible way to construct a fair fight here is to have Tyrone Powers' Zorro go up against Errol Flynn's Robin Hood. Basil Rathbone played the bad guy in both movies, and they both killed him, so we know they should be about equally matched. But what will make the key difference? Three things: technology, climate, and hygiene.

Technology. Zorro fights with a Spanish rapier and a whip. Robin Hood uses a broadsword and a bow & arrow. On board a galleon, the bow and arrow will be of little use, so Robin loses his ranged attack. With the whip, Zorro could disable Robin before he ever gets within sword range. But we must assume that because both men are gentlemen they will settle matters with the blade, and Zorro's rapier will be faster and deadlier by design, easily puncturing Robin's defense.

Climate. Zorro lives on some prime Southern California real estate, the value of which will only rise in time. Robin Hood lives in the woods in damp, cold England. Any dumb schmuck can live in the woods, but it takes a bad MF to get prime real estate in So. CA these days.

Hygiene. Gentleman or no, Robin Hood hails from an age that doesn't believe in baths. Zorro, by contrast, has manners and grooming to spare. Once Maid Marian gets a chance to compare the odors of these two men, she'll clock Robin with a keg of mead and ride off to the sunny California coast the legendary Fox.

Zorro wins, but Robin will still have Little John to keep him warm back in Albion.

- Sancho the Hutt

The key to this match is the presence of ropes and riggings, prevalent on any ship. Everybody knows Errol Flynn has the win if there's a way to make a dramatically appropriate entrance.

- Guildenstern

I had to vote against Robin Hood. Assuming that Zorro is in his prime it's roughly the year 1750 (give or take fifty years for whatever random time period the movie producer goes for). Robin Hood has to be in his prime in the year 1200 since we know he has to deal with Prince John even if the filmmakers think no one will notice adding a couple of centuries on to the setting. That means that in this match Robin Hood is over five hundred years old! I know that "He'd be dead!" isn't a valid response, but there's no way that that a young man like Zorro is going to loose to someone who was born three centuries before European realized his home continent existed. Zorro is as long as it takes to shove an old man down a flight of stairs (an average of eighteen seconds according to my repeated testing).

- Joel Mathis

Robin Hood steals from the rich to give to the poor, so when Zorro wins, he'll steal all the gold from him. Ultimately, the match goes to Robin

- JunkiesOnYogert

Where's Wesley, the Dread Pirate Roberts? He's a pirate. He's a better fighter than both of him. He took on Inigio Montoya, who started as "the Spainiard," aka an imitation of Zorro. And he beat him. I also doubt either Zorro or Robin Hood has ever said "There's a shortage of perfect breasts in the world. I'd hate to loose yours." Oh, and the Dread Pirate Roberts is actually a PIRATE. And they're, you know, fighting on a ship and stuff. Of the choices, I go for Robin Hood. He did live a harder life.

And he's real folklore, not some random serial character. And he spawned a D&D character class (the ranger). Which means versions of him are walking around with +5 enchanged bows of whoop-assing. Which beat whatever Zorro's got. The Lord has spoken

- Lord of Nothings, residing at Simon's Rock College of Bard and

Robin will win because of one factor: fashion copycats. Who wears tights these days...ballerinas, clowns, runners. Basically people at the peak of physical perfection. Who wears leather you wonder? S&M freaks, bikers who think theyre cool, and destinys child. Nuff said

- My name's Jay, my name's Jay

Oh My God! My vote was the 666th for Zorro! He's obviously the Spanish version of Satan, El Diablo. But he still gets my vote because there's a Digimon named Diablomon who represents all that is evil on the internet. If I support him and he wins, I have a great chance at getting free porn!


For some more responses, head to Page 2.


One thing Robin Hood should know is that you never deprive Hollywood of funds, whether it be in the name of King Richard or whoever. Ever hear of a movie called Mask of Robin Hood? I didn't think so. Now you know why.

- Charge Man

If you liked this match, check out these other past matches:

Three Stooges v. Marx Brothers
Darth Maul v. Connor Macleod
CBUB's 4-way swashbuckling match

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Next Match: Whose weapon iz thiz?
ETA: Monday, December 17th, 2001

© 2001, Dragon Hamster Productions, LLC