World Wide Web Fights Presents
What is Grudge Match?
What is Grudge Match?

The Scenario

"Thanks again for turning bin Laden over to us," says the aging black policeman as he transfers the captured fugitive into the back of his LAPD squad car at the foot of the Los Angeles pier.

"Groovy, baby," is the reply, as the Union Jack-painted HMS The Swedish Penis Enlarger Pump Really Is My Bag, Baby sails off into the distance.

Roger Murtaugh turns to his partner, who has stuffed seven bananas in his mouth. "Get those out of your mouth!" he says, knocking three from Martin Riggs' pie-hole.

"Now listen, the Secret Service is gonna be here in 48 hours. We just have to keep this guy safe 'till then and they'll take him off our hands for a sham trial followed by President Bush firing 70 bullets into the back of his head. You think you can manage to NOT kill him?"

"Woob woob woob woob!" replies Riggs.

Murtaugh covers his eyes and sighs. "And here I am, supposed to retire in 49 hours. I'm getting too old for this shit."

(across town, there's a delay at a famous restaurant concern)

"What?" asks the cashier.

"Look at my mouth. I want a ROYALE with CHEESE, motherf#$@er!"


Jules pulls out his gun. "Say 'What' again, motherf%*#er, I f$%@ing dare you! Say 'What' again!"

Vincent Vega pushes the gun to the side. "Put that away, Jules. Marcellus wants us to drop the business with that boxer; he's tied up in a highrise somewhere in town. We've got two days to find some guy named Osama bin Laden who skipped out on an arms deal Marcellus set up. We've got to bring him back alive. You cool with that?"

"I dig. I'm cool. Just like Fonzie.", says Jules Winnfield. He adjusts his tie and pats down his afro. "But we're gonna need shotguns for this job."

Turning back to the nylon-clad cashier, "Look, punk, just give me Le Big Mac. We're in a hurry."


Jules' eyes bug out as Vincent pushes his partner out the door.

So, HotBranch! Pick the pair that keeps bin Laden alive long enough to bring him to their boss' justice.

Vincent Vega and Jules Winnfield, Pulp Fiction Martin Riggs and Roger Murtaugh, Lethal Weapon

Vega & Winnfield vs. Riggs & Murtaugh

The Commentary

HOTBRANCH: If Riggs and Murtaugh were protecting anyone other than Osama bin Laden (say Jar-Jar Binks, the Olson twins, or Martin Lawrence, all of whom have extensively documented crimes against humanity), I'd go with the good guys. But I can't see how Marcellus Wallace's boys won't get the job done. Riggs and Murtaugh had enough problems not killing Joe Pesci over the course of three movies. Given that they are as pissed as everyone else with bin Laden's acts, it'll be a miracle if they leave enough of their captive for the feds to carry off in a body bag.

I see it playing out like this: a distraught Riggs (who lost his latest bimbo-du-jour-slash-true love in the WTC attacks) handcuffs himself to bin Laden atop an LA skyscraper threatening to jump, whereupon a frustrated Murtaugh tries to shoot both off the building so he can retire "once and for freaking all".

Vega and Winnfield, on the other hand, might not like bin Laden, but they essentially see him as a fellow professional killer. They'll kill Murtaugh and Riggs, the same way they killed Roger and Brett, and deliver their Muslim bounty. For kicks, they might force some bacon (from a motherf#$@ing charming pig) in bin Laden's pie-hole, but he will be delivered alive and well to Marcellus. All we need to know from that point on is that the ball gag, some pliers, and a blowtorch are waiting...

JOHN: [Enters room] Ah, just in time. I was following the old Grudge Match axiom: "Hotbranch's commentary = piss break". Although the break really isn't over yet - just wait a bit until Hotbranch voids himself after I systematically dismantle all of his arguments.

Clearly, Riggs and Murtaugh will get bin Laden to the firing squad on time. Riggs is always able to direct his extensive suicidal proclivities into the Rage™ required to become a Lethal Weapon™. Hence the name. And as Hotbranch! notes, Riggs always seems to have some direct connection to whatever nasty business he's investigating - drug smugglers? Hey, we served in 'nam together. South African diplomatic criminals? Hey, I'm the guy that drove over your wife! Gun-runners? Hey, we used to serve on the force together until I killed lots of cops you knew! Is this sloppy writing? No, it's a kind of super-power - the ability to find a reason to be suicidally enraged at any person in the world! You better believe Riggs'll be motivated to take down Vega/Winnfield.

Additionally, have you noticed that Murtaugh becomes a better cop the closer he is to retirement? The closer he is to leaving, the more he gets to say "I'm getting too old for this shit!", which is movie cop-speak for "Wondertwin Powers Activate!". With less than 48 hours to go, he'll be unstoppable. I can't wait for Lethal Weapon 8: I'm Retiring the Second I Put Down This Cup of Coffee.

Here's what we know: The eventual showdown between the combatants will occur at Murtaugh's house. It always does. Riggs will give Leo Getz a taser gun and ask him to keep Osama safe until the execution. Getz's repeated tasering of bin Laden is so comical, Fox will make a new series out of it: When Joe Pesci Tasers. Vega will enter Murtaugh's bathroom to relieve himself, where he'll fall victim to the toilet bomb. (Dude, next time hold it in!) Riggs gets suicidally angry at Jules, because, er... because he misquotes Ezekiel 25:17 or something. Not like it matters (see above). Exeunt Jules. Anyways, under no circumstances do Jules and Vincent win. I mean, they couldn't even kill Honey Bunny and Pumpkin, how sad was that?

HOTBRANCH: Congratulations. I did piss myself--from laughing at your short-schoolbus-mouth-breathing-hockey-helmet-wearing fecal effluent masquerading as commentary. Maybe I was drunk at the time, but I don't remember you donating your brain when we visited the nude female firehouse/beverage emporium during your stag party. (Sorry, ladies, but Tiger Beat's "Hunk of the millennium" is spoken for. Send your condolences to

The only thing I've noticed about Murtaugh is that his family has fewer street smarts than the Amish. When Vincent and Jules arrive at casa de Murtaugh, Rog's daughter will try to score some heroin from Vega, delivering another Oscar-worthy performance as "stupid hostage victim". Since Riggs and Murtaugh have previously failed to snuff Gary Busey when rescuing Rianne, they'll lose bin Laden and be busted down to parking meter duty. Coming soon: Lethal Weapon 9: I'm too old to take a shit.

In a shoot 'em up video game, who HASN'T been killed while taking a dump? I thought so. (Happens to me every time I play Metal Gear Solid on my Intellivision.) Even if Vincent is killed, Jules will still be able to carry the day because he has a divine force field protecting him. All Riggs and Murtaugh will do is ruin the latest in the never-ending renovations at Roger's house before being blown away like the fourth man. Game, set, and medieval match, mofo!

For the record, giving Leo Getz a taser is like giving Bud Selig the power to rule major league baseball. Bad things, bad things...

JOHN: For God's sake, Hotbranch!, get it straight. The stag party consisted of us going out for tea and scones, then falling asleep at your place watching the Game Show network. If we all stick to the same story, no one will be indicted. Alright?

Let's get another thing straight - Jules gave up his life of crime after nearly being plugged by an acne-ridden teen. Vega not only got killed in the can, but he was killed by his own weapon which he left on the kitchen counter of his mark's house. Doesn't sound to me like these are terribly effective hitmen. They certainly don't stand a chance against the guy who beat the Predator or the man who freed Scotland. Also, about that divine force field - I understand that Jules was later offed by that kid from Life as a House. So good luck with that.

Finally, your Christmas present of Depends™ is in the mail. This will help you with your bodily fluid issuance problem - plus you won't have to worry about hitting pause during your Metal Gear Solid sessions. Hmm. I guess you're not too old for that particular shit.

Thanks to Ivan Avilla, Jeff Kerns, Carlos E. Torres, Vinnie Mondaro,
Bill McKay and Infraggable Krunk for suggesting this match.

The Results

Martin Riggs and Roger Murtaugh, Lethal Weapon

Riggs & Murtaugh (1712 - 57.2%)


Vincent Vega and Jules Winnfield, Pulp Fiction

Vega & Winnfield (1280 - 42.8%)

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Voter Comments


This is a complicated match, until you consider: Riggs and Murtaugh come from the Richard Donner Universe, where the main characters never die, especially if they approach the fabled Mentos Level Coolness(TM). Jules and Vincent, on the other hand, come from the Quentin Tarantino Universe, where the main characters ALWAYS die, ESPECIALLY if they approach Mentos Level Coolness(TM). The two parties will meet, exchange witty banter, and break into an epic gunfight. Just as the action approaches a bloody climax, Jules and Vincent will scream in pain and burst into flames. Riggs and Murtaugh survive for Leathal Weapon 17: Get Away From My Wheelchair.

- Mr. Pink

Silver Grudgie ROTW Silver Medal GrudgieTM

As Winnfield and Vega spot Riggs and Murtough, the following conversation came up:

Winnfield: You know man, I kicked some ass in Europe, and I gotta tell you, it's different there and here in America
Vega: what do you mean?
Winnfield: It's the little you know what they call blowing a guy's brain's out in Spain?
Vega: I don't know....what do they call blowing a guy's brain's out in Spain?
Winnfield: El Braino Sprayo.....
Vega: wow man...I didn't know that...what do they call it in France?
Winnfield: Le Brain Spray..


Riggs looked at Murtough and whispered to him:
Riggs:...Aren't they going to try and shoot us?
Murtough: that's what I thought...
Riggs: maybe were finally going to get through doign something with out getting all bloodied and bruised!
Murtough: Allright...*the two happily walk off together*
Vega: wait a second....we forgot to do something...
Winnfield: oh yeah... *Both men turn and blow Riggs and Murtough's heads off.*
Vega: man...were getting soft, we almost forgot to do that...
Winnfield: let's go get some doughnuts..
Vega: groovy...

*the Pulp Fiction theme song starts to play as the two jump into a red corvette and drive off*

- Dane "The New Prodigy"

Bronze Grudgie ROTW Bronze Medal GrudgieTM

When was the last time Riggs or Murtaugh got killed midway through a movie, but still walked out of the restaurant door at the end??? OK, they might have made a few sequels, but they never come back from the dead!!!! (Although it may be argued that the reason for sequels is to keep bringing Danny Glover's career back from the dead, that is hardly comparable.) Vega and Winnfield walk this one in, with barely a bad piece of muther-^&%&$^*(@#)#-ing languauge to be heard.

- Saphron

Silly Explicit Warning GrudgieTM

When I saw this match yesterday, I decided to step up my campaign to win a Gold Grudgie(tm) ( Silver would be nice, too, or bronze or The Final Word(tm)... even one of those silly made-up ones would be good, I guess) by doing some actual research into them. When I went to my local Blockbuster Video(doesn't deserve a tm, keep reading), they exercised what they called an "Explict Warning". What this means is I can't rent out Pulp Fiction because I'm legally too young to hear and see on video what I hear and see at high school every day (Except for the gimp I've heard about, obviously). Needless to say, I must vote for Vega & Winnfield out of spite.

Also, to those at my local Blockbuster: IF YOU %^$%ING INTERFERE WITH MY $%^*ING GRUDGE GOODNESS(tm) AGAIN, I'LL @#$!ING BLOW YOUR MOTHER&^($ING HEADS OFF AND #%^#%^* $^ $%*$%& ^^&&*$% &%#@&* &^%$^* WITH AN OVER-RIPE PINEAPPLE!!!

Now that's an explict warning!

- Mixmaster ^&%$ing Flibble

WARNING: The previous response contained explicit language and should not have been read by anyone. If this response was taken internally, induce vomiting and consult a physician immediately.
Grudge Match is not for everyone, and on every other day, has been found to cause night blindness, day blindness, hairy palms, internal and external bleeding, children born with the head of a daschund, the condition known as cantaloupe nipples, and dry mouth. -- Eds.

Let's face it, none of these guys has a chance at getting Bin Laden back alive. Vega and Winnfield? They blew their guy away in the car, remember? Riggs and Murtaugh, on the other hand, kept Pesci alive--unfortunately. It certianly wasn't due to any effort on their part. Anybody they try to keep alive is bound to end up dead.

Here's a new picture: Murtaugh has Bin Laden and is standing around impatiently when Vega and Winnfield pull up, screeching to a halt and exiting the car. Jules levels his gun at Bin Laden, while Vincent draws his own weapon and puts it at Murtaugh's head. "We're taking this guy." says Vega.

"I don't think so, scum." Riggs--looking a lot younger, redressed in dust-covered black leather, and armed with a sawed-off shotgun-- stands atop a nearby crate.

Jules' gun tracks around, and while Vega is distracted, Murtaugh draws his revolver. The four are in a stand-off.

This is the point when the Ford POS pulls up and two men in black suits get out. Each carries a sci-fi-style pistol, which they point threateningly in the general direction of the four. "INS, Division 6." says K. "We'll take Bin Laden from here."

"I don't think so, Mother-F%#@$#" says Jules, spinning and leveling his gun.

At that point, it's all over. J fires, hitting--and dissolving-- Jules. Vega fires back at K, and the Men In Black duck behind their car doors. Riggs laughs dementedly and, leveling his shotgun at Vega, squeezes the trigger--only to realize he's out of ammunition.

Before Vega can shoot at Riggs, Murtaugh shoots him in the back. J fires again, missing Vega's collapsing corpse and hitting Murtaugh.

K guns down Riggs with one shot.

"It's all over, Osama." says K, walking up to the still-shackled renegade.

"All over." J comes around from the back of the car, carrying an extremely painful-looking device covered with hooks, claws, needles, and spikes. "Us over at the Division have some rather extra- terrestrial methods of inflicting EXTREME pain while keeping you alive." He grins. "And we make it look GOOD."

- AresAK83

One thing about this scenario stands out in my mind, and that is the fact that Vince and Jules apparently have no idea who Osama bin Laden is or what he’s done. That means the only thing they know going in is that Osama’s ripped off their boss.

This is pretty much a daily occurrence for them; 9am wake up, 11am head to local eatery for Le McMuffin and some clever pop culture laden conversation, 1pm kill scumbag who ripped off Marcellus, lather, rinse & repeat.

While they certainly have motivation for bringing in bin Laden, their heart isn’t really in it. It’s just another job to them. Riggs and Murtaugh on the other hand know exactly who and what Osama is and are fully prepared to engage in whatever insane stunts may prove necessary to ensure that he sees proper justice so that America can finally get a little closure on the darkest period in its history.

Jules will get maybe three words into his little, "The iniquity of the blah, blah, blah . . ." speech before Riggs rushes him, taking a bullet in the shoulder, and sends them both crashing through an enormous plate glass window into a swimming pool several stories below. Riggs rises from the water triumphant, leaving Jules to float face down until the Coroner’s Office can send someone to fish him out.

Meanwhile Vince, trying to clean Chris Rock out of the back of his car following a slight accident (Go ahead, watch Lethal Weapon 4 and tell me he didn’t have it coming.) realizes too late that he left his gun sitting on the dash as Murtaugh gets the drop on him, muttering the universal mantra of aging action heroes all the while.

And so, a grateful nation gets to watch the long, slow, nationally televised on all channels torture death of Osama bin Laden it desires while Vince, spared an undignified death in this version of reality, gets to practice his fancy dance moves at the prison sock hop.

- Don "King" Milliken

Since each team is so equally matched in terms of firepower, let's look at this in terms of the highest ranking actor on each of the teams. John Travolta for Team Pulp Fiction and Mel Gibson for Team Lethal Weapon. Using the standard Grudge Match(tm) procedure of allowing each actor to call in allies from other productions they have appeared in, there is no way that Team Lethal Weapon can lose this one. The best John Travolta can do is call upon the Sweathogs from "Welcome Back Kotter" (the Earth resistance fighters from "Battlefield Earth" don't count since the film was a real bomb that most folks have forgotten or are trying to). While one of the Sweathogs (Epstein) was portrayed by an actor who was friends with an uncle of mine, the Sweathogs are out of their league. On the other hand, Mel can call on the hundreds and hundreds of Scottish warriors from "Braveheart". As well established by Grudge Match(tm) precedent, Scotsmen are fierce fighters and these allies alone would be enough to make Team Pulp Fiction's last moments on Earth terrifying. In addition, Mel can also call on Mad Max - another Grudge Match(tm) veteran. With backup like this, Osama will make his appointment with Bush's firing squad. If Team Pulp Fiction knows what's good for them, they'll pass on this job and take another assignment.

- The Demented Astronomer

All Mangled And Killed. It´s ALWAYS that way on the Tarantino movies (except Girl 6/8/10/whatever and From Dusk ´Till Down 3).

- Tyler Durden(still waiting for you to kick CBUB´s ass,and where are the Gecko Brothers,the Natural Born Killers and Jackie Brown?)

Lets see, 2 Bible quoting, Multilingual Hitmen Vs. THE LAPD (I can't figure out which one is more evil!). Not only are they fighting the LAPD but Riggs and Murtaugh the 2 maniacs who have cost the city of Los Angeles their insurance carrier as well as the career of Danny Glover.

To truly appreciate these 2 forces, we must compare them:

Intelligence: Vega and Jules evidently speak French or rather they could get by if air dropped in a MacDonalds near Montreal. They have read the bible, which gives them a point because most criminals can't read, and know all about Biblical revenge. But Riggs and Murtaugh are no slouches, they have single handedly (well together, so technically not single handedly), been able to Beat, Hurt and Kill several villains, including a Diplomat and get away scott free.

Toughness: Vega and Jules have brawled with some of the world's toughest, Bruce Willis (John MacLane), Christopher Walken (Headless Horseman), Ving Rhames, but they have yet to tangle with a force that is true destruction....JET LI. Riggs and Murtaugh handed Jet's ass to him on a plate. Granted they got the crap kicked out of them but they did it. The also eliminated Gary Busey, Stuart Wilson (TMNT 3), and Joss Acklund.

Franchise Power: Pulp Fiction aside from winning a couple of awards and done literally nothing on the market. A few Action Figures and T-Shirts but that's it. A prequel is in the works but the EPISODE 1 FACTOR, which states that Prequels blow (except INDIANA JONES 2) is looming. Lethal Weapon on the other hand has 4 films to it's credit and a 5th one in development.

ACTING ABILITY: Sam Jackson is one bad actor (bad as in good), he has the power to do both dramatic roles and action roles no problem, the man should be nominated for a oscar. John Travolta...couldn't act his way out of a paper bag, which incidently is where he discovered Scientology. Whenever he talks, I cringe. Mel Gibson has proven he is a competent actor but a better director and producer. Danny Glover is also a good actor although he has his flaws (the voice).

Final Factor: VEGA & JULES

Look Whose Talking 1-3   -3 
Battlefield Earth        -1 
The Boy In The Bubble    -1 
Saturday Night Fever     -1 
Stay Hungry              -1 
Phenominom               -1 
Great White Hype         +1 
Shaft                    +1 
Face/Off                 +1 
Loaded Weapon 1          +1 
TOTAL -4  


Pure Luck                -1 
What Women Want          -1 
Father's Day             -1 
Beloved                  -3 
Gone Fishin'             -1 
Mad Max                  +2 
Payback                  +1 
Braveheart               +3 
Bird On A Wire           +1 
TOTAL -1  

So Riggs & Murtaugh wait on the boat until Barbarino and and Sam show up a firefight insues. Murtaugh doesn't get a scratch, Riggs needs a organ transplant and the two hitman get to examine the bottom of the marina floor close hand.

- Shaun The Other White Meat

Riggs & Murtaugh in 2 hours and 15 minutes. First they would drive a car through the city at a very high speed, with a very frightened Osama Bin Laden in the back seat. Then they would have dinner at Murtaugh's place Then Jules And Vincent would try to kill them in a spectacular shootout at Murtaugh's place Riggs would meet a nice woman Jules And Vincent would kill that woman Riggs would get the RAGE(TM) Jules And Vincent would defend themselves by hurting Riggs' shoulder, and leave him for dead. Riggs would scream in pain and RAGE(TM) as he would force his shoulder into place. Riggs would singlehandedly wipe his ass with Jules And Vincent. Murtaugh would say "I'm getting too old for this shit!", and he would be absolutely right! In between all this, we would get to know Osama bin Laden a little better, and we would understand that he wasn't such a bad dude after all, and he would not be executed (Riggs & Murtaugh would see to that), and he would stick around for two or three sequels as a funny sidekick and demolitions expert! (can't wait for Lethal Weapon 5: Holy War!)

- Dustflyer Riggs, Dustflyer Murtaugh, Dustflyer Bin Laden

"Hey Usama, what do you think about all this?" "Hey man I know nothing." "Well you GOT to know something, you really think we were protected by some divine light, a few minutes ago fighting those coppers?" (BANG) "Whoah SHIT! What the F*&@ happened!?" " I shot Usama in the face." "What do you mean you shot him in the f%*^ing face!?" "I didn't mean to. It was an accident!" Although I love these Motherf*$#ers, I have to go with Murtagh and Riggs.

- -Mark

Vincent & Jules's special defense? Can't be killed by anything emerging from a bathroom.

Martin & Roger's special vulnerability? Exploding toilets. They can't stay inside, and they can't leave. Looks like it's the pliers and blowtorch for Osama.

- Mike Leung

Let's look at this rationally. The setting is Los Angeles, California. The last time this nation paid ANY attention to an accused murderer, he endured a 'national' civil trial within these hallowed city limits and was acquitted. Now what would you do with Osama bin Laden if you were guarding him? A.) Protect him, forcing him to go through a tedious civil trial, which will take years to complete thanks to the legal system B.) Give him to Vega and Winnfield, where he likely will re-enact the torture scene from Resevoir Dogs followed by the woodchipper scene from Fargo. Thus, it follows suit that Murtaugh: *Hands him over* Riggs: *Eats dog biscuits* Shall I go...*ting* Sorry, my break's up. *resumes working for Canadian Government like the common troll*

- Zoelef

I was about to vote for the match, when I was suddenly overtaken by the pain from keeping a gold watch up my butt. Go figure.

- Grudge-Pops™: Now in new gangrene flavor!

Vega and Winnfield, without a doubt. The job here is to protect someone or something, right? Well, Murtaugh and Riggs, in their ONLY time doing this, failed abysmally. Riggs' girlfriend/sex toy was thrown in the freakin' bay! Jules and Vinnie, on the other hand, have delivered when it came down to them protecting something. Even though they had to scrub a car clean of blood and brains(no easy task, let me assure you; those stains just WON'T come ou-uh, never mind), they still delivered. And what did they deliver? A soul. Granted, what passes for Bin Laden's soul won't be visible without a microscope, but it's in his body, so no worries. Also, Jules has that divine force protecting him. What do Riggs and Murtaugh have? Generic cops whose only function is to get killed in order to further the plot. I rest my case.

- Matt L., "Nem"

Ok, lets look at staying power here for just a second. Riggs and Murtaugh have to keep Osama alive for 48 hours, so staying power is important. Pulp Fiction: one movie. Lethal weapon: 4 movies, + lethal weapon 5 in development. Next, Murtaugh. Every time he gets ready to retire, something goes wrong. He knows this, and should be expecting it, so he has the police department surround his house with every cop they can get out their, plus Riggs wife for good measure. This takes the innocent civilians out of the picture. Next, homicidal factor. Two homicidal maniacs (Jules & Winnfield) Vs. one (Riggs). Most likely ,Jules & Winnfield will go back into the restaurant and go on a killing spree over lunch. This will draw the rest of the police onto their trail. Next, survivability. Riggs and Murtaugh have been tortured, beaten to a pulp through 4 movies (+ one in development). Jules gets killed by the end of pulp fiction, and Winnfield should have been. Riggs and Murtaugh in a nutshell, and just for good measure they catch Marcellus when he comes to bail out Jules & Winnfield after their shooting spree.

- Lunatic Fringe

If one wanted to go for the easy answer here, one could simply look at the track records here. Mel Gibson was Braveheart and lost to Groundskeeper Willie. Braveheart was Scottish. The Highlander was Scottish. The Highlander lost to Darth Maul. Darth Maul was killed by Obi-Wan Kenobi. Mace Windu is presumably better than Obi-Wan Kenobi. Samuel Jackson, therefore, must be better than Mel Gibson, regardless of how surprisingly not-awful Gibson's Hamlet was. Which is another point against Gibson: he who hesitates is lost, and Hamlet was an extreme procrastinator. Or one could just point out that John Travolta is associated with a organization which is too scary for one to mention directly, and he will no doubt wish to make amends for Battlefield: Earth, or whatever the flop was that his leader wrote. That's what one could say if one wanted to take the easy way out. One does. *One might note that Samuel Jackson's leadership skills are questionable in the light of his proposal that nearly led his comrades into the mouth of a shark. But one would respond by pointing out that Samuel Jackson's quick conversion into shark-food means that he wasn't in the movie long enough for it to be counted.

- DevinH

Don't you know that neither of these teams can win? There is only one white cop/black cop team with the power to even consider for this match: John McClane/Al "Twinkies" Powell! Riggs and Murtaugh get hissy-fits when they lose girlfriends or family members. The Pulp boys swear and shoot themselves. What is this next to the power of that-which-beats-the-Force[TM]??? The man took out the Death Star! This had only previously been done once by a Jedi and once by the entire damn Rebellion, and McClane did it hand-to-hand! Plus, Al is the best backup man: has connections (by walkie-talkie, but whatever), stays out of the way while the hero (read: McClane) is kicking ass, and comes through at the end with that saving shot. Finally, remember that the situation involves a foreign terrorist. McClane has Mentos-level fighting powers when in situations involving foreign terrorists.

Vega and Winnfield and Riggs and Murtaugh are all at Murtaugh's house, of course. It just happens, dammit! Before Vega and Winnfield open up on the other two, Vega steps into the house to take a dump, and, invariably, shoots himself. Winnfield starts opening up when McClane shows up (Al is two blocks away convincing the CIA not to carpet bomb the area just to eliminate bin Laden). The following conversation ensues: McClane: "Zeus! Get the @#$% over here!" Winnfield: "The @#$%? What the @#$% you doing here?" McClane: "I'm gonna blow the $!%# out of that @#$%ing terrorist!" Winnfield: "Huh? Why? I like this job! My partner and I say @#$% a lot!" McClane: "I put yippee-kayay in front." Winnfield: <bewildered silence> McClane: "Would you hurry the @#$% up?" Zeus: "I'm with you, but you still a @#$%ing racist." Now McClane has TWO black sidekicks, and yet another Law of the Universe[TM] dictates that John McClane's power is directly proportional to the number of black sidekicks he has. Also note that Winnfield-Zeus is a Jedi, and therefore tied to those who can blow up Death Stars. McClane beats the mother@#$%ing @#$% out of Riggs, and Winnfield-Zeus-Windu blows Murtaugh's head clean off (movie rule: Very rarely can a white cop get away with shooting a black guy. Black guys shoot black guys.) As the coroners are cleaning up the mess, the body that was Riggs gets up and levels an AK-47 (from where? who knows) at McClane, and is shot by Al. McClane, Al, and Winnfield-Zeus-Windu-Shaft-Brown ponder over how to kill bin Laden. The consensus? "Hell, let 'im cook!"

(End note: I voted for Vega and Winnfield cuz Samuel L. Jackson was in the spoof Loaded Weapon. Anyone who spoofs a movie beats that movie.)

- Kannyn

Simple. No f-ing way can Riggs and Murtaugh lose this one.

1. NUMBERS. Each subsequent Leathal Weapon movie, their posse grows exponentially. LW2: Pesci. LW3: Pesci & Russo. LW4: Pesci, Russo, Rock, that little Chinese kid, and two impending cop babies. Who've Jules and Vincent got? We don't get much of a view of Marcellus' other employees, except those idiots with the Hawaiian burgers who got The Case before Marcellus got The Case (shoulda hired Robert DeNiro and Jean Reno), meaning Marcellus was, at some point, outfoxed by the Aloha burger crowd. That's just sad. And his wife can't even recognize her drug of choice with her face pressed up against it. Jules and Vincent can't even figure out that when you blow someone's head off in your car, the next step is to ...CLEAN THE CAR.

2. SUCCESS STRATEGY: Riggs and Murtaugh ALWAYS FAIL AT FIRST, regroup, then kick ass. Vincent and Jules initially succeed but then botch it over and over and over along the way, barely accomplish their task, then get killed or wander off. Here's exactly how this one will play: Osama is tied up at Murtaugh's. Vincent and Jules break in, shoot Nameless Cop Guarding Him after talking him nearly to death, set the place on fire and steal Osama (initial success). Then they ram their car into a tree, get bit by angry possums, eat some bad crab salad and have Osama kick 'em in a Bad Place (botching it over and over). Meanwhile, Riggs and Murtaugh have a heart to heart at the burned out house while that '80s sax rif plays, get a pile of guns, the 4 wacky helpmates allotted them this movie and proceed to mess up Jules' jerhi curl something fierce.

3. QUENTIN FACTOR: Tarantino's a shoddy rip-off artist. Riggs and Murtaugh are repeatedly busting people trafficking in stolen goods. And that chin's a mighty big target, just like Gary Busey's teeth. And you saw how that ended.

- Faster than you can say 'Franchise.'

Riggs and Murtaugh look up from their sqaud car to see two strange men with outlandish haircuts in black suits. They are holding shotguns. "Normally, both of you would be dead as %&@*ing fried chicken by now, but since I'm in a transitional period, I don't want to kill either one of your asses."

Riggs stares at the two hit men. Absolut deadpan. "Thin." Murtaugh nods slowly. "That's very thin." Suddenly two large vans pull up, filled with screaming Al-Qaeda fighters, hell-bent on rescuing their leader. They are armed with South-African assult rifles, smuggled in by drug-running ex-cop mercenaries on Chinese ships.

As the terrorists open fire on the four standing figures, Bin Laden squirms out of the police cruiser and sneaks towards an abandoned motorboat. The two Lethal Weapons™ dive for cover, trading wisecracks as they pick off the machine-gunning maniacs. Jules is instantly killed by a single stray bullet, and Vincent is run over by a van while dodging bullets John Woo-style. A large gasoline truck slowly and inexplicably pulls into frame. Riggs's face lights up, and as he empties his 9mm into the tanker, so does the entire pier. As the Destructive Duo exchange high-fives they notice, in the flickering light of the burning vehicles, a fleeing Arab leader.

Osama turns, looking for a place to hide. He hears Riggs reloading. He says "$*!&." He actually stops and says, "$*!&." Or, "Damn." Or "By Allah, I’ve been spotted." The point being, he now has to run like the desert rat he is.

Suddenly, Murtaugh's .38 Special barks, and the Arab crumples to the ground, holding his knee. "See how easy that was?" asks Roger. "Boom, still alive. Now we question him. You know why we question him? Because I got him in the leg. I didn't shoot him full of holes or try to stop his jeep with a ChiCom RPG-7."

"Hey, that's not fair," protests Riggs, "The jeep guy lived for a while."

- The Targ8ter

With all this mess that is the so-called War on Terrorism (considering I am in more personal danger of having my life ruined by other Americans than by Afghanis), it would be only fitting that the Australian wins this.

- The Bunyip

Ya know, this is a beautiful match-up, but I think three points show the answer to this one...

Competence: Given the time frame required for this match, it's obviously post-Lethal Weapon 4, and Riggs is definitely a tad mellower than he was in the first two movies thanks to new love/fatherhood. Somewhat of a disadvantage here, since if this had been around Lethal Weapon 1 era he'd have splattered these two punks against the wall in seconds. Still, John's got a point about how "I'm getting too old for this shit" seems to work for Murtaugh; the mind trembles at what uttering that might do for Riggs considering he was the title lethal weapon of the first two films in his prime. And besides, even by Lethal Weapon 4 those two still had the cojones to take Jet Li on hand-to-hand and win, even when they didn't have to; that says a lot right there. Looking at their competitors shows an entirely different story. Vega is outright pathetic; not only did he accidently blow away one guy in the back of the car (which doesn't speak wonders for the odds of bringing Bin Laden back in one piece), he couldn't even take care of Marcellus's wife without her nearly buying it from an OD. And of course there's his death at the hands of Bruce "Now I Have a Machine Gun Thanks to You, Sucker; HO HO HO!" Willis. Jules looks somewhat better given his Mentos-level coolness, but even he has his problems. He stands there while a guy empties an entire load of ammo in his direction without even dodging or returning fire. Obviously it was a miracle that saved them, because it sure wasn't their own abilities. And his little jaunt off for spiritual enlightenment obviously led him to become a Jedi Master on the Jedi Council, where he proceeded to join Yoda in letting in the little bastard who would later go on to off them and most of the rest of the Jedi. Again, not a shining indication of ability.

Calibre of Enemies: The Lethal Weapon crew faces off against ex-Special Forces mercenaries, corrupt South Africans, crooked ex- cops armed with armor-piercing bullets, and Chinese organized crime headed by Jet Li. No pushovers in this crowd, to be sure; I think even Marcellus would respect folks who stood up to somebody like Mr. Joshua. All Vega and Jules face off with are dumb cowardly punks and insane armed robbers; the Lethal Weapon crew wastes guys like these in 10 minute minor action scenes. The one time the Pulp Fictioners had someone of badass level to face, Bruce "Now With Redneck Cutting Action!" Willis - well, the results were mentioned above.

RAGE Management: Both sides have a member capable of channeling the awesome power of the RAGE, Riggs and Jules. Jules unfortunately seems to have little control over when he looses said RAGE; he's flipping out at a stupid fast food guy in the set-up, but when he's faced with a pair of loony looter lovebirds he just sits on his butt and lets them take his money rather than waste 'em Johnny Woo-style. Then he goes off and becomes a Jedi; not very good use of his RAGE there either. Basically, the man has wasted his God-given talent to wreak havoc upon his foes. Riggs on the other hand has honed his RAGE to unleash only upon his enemies, which he does with frightful efficiency. Sure, he may be mellow now, but if the Pulp Fiction crew is dumb enough to attack his wife and kid, I'm sure we'll see him snap back to the deadly psycho who pulled down a friggin' house in Lethal Weapon 2 after similar provocation. Well, I don't know about you, but it's looking like Riggs and Murtaugh take this one to me.

- "Mad Dog" Mike

Jesuchristo, this one's tough to call! Not for any of the reasons stated in Hotbranch!'s or John's commentaries, however. Y'see, there's one important detail they seemed to forget after the first entry: they're not trying to kill each other, they're trying NOT to kill bin-Laden. (Since the two pairs would end up in a fight in a universe where they both exist, I am of course assuming that we are looking at two different parts of the WSOGMM. If you don't know what I mean by "WSOGMM," go read The Hitchhiker's Guide by the late Douglas Adams, you uncultured swine.) The clash here is obviously between Vincent and Riggs: which one is more likely to kill Our Hero? (I say this because Jules and Roger are non-issues, unless Roger really is "too old for this shit" and shoots bin-Laden in a fit of senile dementia.) Now we have two big contenders for biggest killer. Will complete accident or mental deficiency win out? Vincent is probably yakkin' on about burgers or movies or illegal drugs or some other inane crap like that, and the first time Jules even THINKS he sees a red light, bin-Laden is headless. Meanwhile, Riggs is just frikkin' loopy, and will shoot bin- Laden intentionally if he doesn't shoot himself first. So far things are lookin' pretty even. But we have to consider the fact that before Riggs and Murtaugh ever get anywhere NEAR the PD, they have to, for some reason or another, stop off and blow up Roger's new boat. This will put more time, and thus more opportunity for failure into the Good Guys' attempt. Advantage: Jules/Vincent. But wait, there's one thing we haven't touch on here. Riggs IS nuts, but he's not HOMICIDAL nuts. If anything, bin-Laden will walk to the station willfully out of sympathy for the poor man once he starts ranting. Advantage: Riggs/Murtaugh. This, I believe is the final blow. Decision: Riggs/Murtaugh save the day, and Jules/Vincent call The Wolf.

- 007Bistromath

If I may quote a famous evil genius Dark Helmet "Now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." Jules's Zen like aura, and divine protection alone will prove too much for the decrepit old Murtaugh, and Riggs's RAGE™ will be no match Vincent's Mentos™ level coolness, his only weakness being bathrooms. After Mia overdosing, Butch shooting him, and the restaurant getting robbed, he has learned his lesson about coming out of bathrooms and will avoid them at all costs. Riggs and Murtaugh are sent to Monster Joe's, and Osama lives the rest of his short ass life in agonizing pain as Marcellus's men go mid-evil on his ass.

- Marius de Romanus & Michael Clark

Riggs and Murtaugh got Osama tied and bound They dont kill him but they smack him around Then Vega and his pal arrive on the scene These hitmen are tough and also real mean They wanna kill Bin Laden, but dont think they can Marcelllus calls the shots, cuz he is the man As is expected, the two teams start to fight If they didnt, no Grudgie would feel quite right I know that if they just stood around to chat I'd beat em' myself with a baseball bat Anyways, im sorry, i was getting off topic Winnfield is winning cuz Murtaugh's myopic He cant see that far, so Winnie hits him Once in the face, and then once in the chin Hey, the words "chin" and "him" are close enough! If you dont like my rhyming I might have to get rough Meanwhile, Vega is feeling the pinch Riggs is finding that the fight is a cinch Vega ends up knocked out on the floor Murtaugh soon joins him, and thus ends the war Riggs joins Winnfield, the two victors unite They plan on causing Bin Laden a fright They get their arms limber, their fists ready to pound Osama, however, is not to be found While these retards were fighting, he got away Just going to show violence isnt the way Peace is the answer, and if you disagree I pity your soul, shame on you times three! (I'm sorry for that load of smarmy bullplop I just needed a moral for this poetry flop) Violence is the answer most of the time And that, my friends, is the end of this rhyme.

- sPEciaL eD

Two words: No Brainer. Let's look at the competitors.

Vincent and Jules.
Vincen't big daddy cool to be sure. But what is he constantly having to remind Jules of? That's right, not to kill stupid people. Now who's their mark? Undoubtedly the stupidest man alive. If Vincent can barely salvage the life of the kid in the burger joint, how long do you think bin Laden's gonna last? That's right, for the first time in history, The Rage (TM) works against a contestant. The real question on how long bin Laden survives: does Jules know the Arabic word for "What?"

Riggs and Murtaugh.
Here we have two boyscouts who are better than anyone on Earth at keeping a stupid moron alive. How do I know this you ask? Two words: Joe Pesci. He's still alive and they've made four movies.

Riggs and Murtaugh get this one thanks inadvertantly to The Rage (TM)

- MistaPeepers

This one is a toughie. Yes, Riggs and Murtaugh have a tough time keeping witnesses and the not so major characters alive, I don't think they'd have a problem keeping Osama alive. Osama would be considered in the same vein as Joe Pesci, they might even have a few laughs as they take Osama with them to solve some case. Lets put it this way, if they can keep Joe Pesci alive through 3 movies, Osama should be a cake walk. Vincent and Jules on the other hand couldn't keep an associate alive for 5 minutes. If they had Osama, they'd take him for a ride and next thing you know they're scraping brains off the car.

- Lethal Fiction

Wait... the cops are waiting for the Secret Service to show up to take bin Laden. Jules and Vincent just happen to be wearing black suits. Duh - the Pulp Fiction boys take this one without a single shot being fired.

- Charge Man

You ever watch Wheel of Fortune?

You know when the second person spins the wheel. Sometimes, instead of looking at the arrow-thing directly in front, he or she will look at the arrow-thing in front of the first contestant.

Then Pat Sajak tells the contestant to look at his or her own arrow- thing.

Well, it's too bad Pat Sajak ain't around to help Winnfield. In this match's picture, Winnfield appears to be aiming his gun using the sights on Vega's gun.

Sajak: Jules, aim with your own gun.
Winnfrield: Shuddup, Sajak!
Vega: Wait a minute! You were aiming using MY gun?
Winnfield: No. Sajak don't know nothin'! I know how to aim a damn gun!
Vega: It don't sound like you know. You got bullets in there?
Winnfield: Yeah!
Vega; Where'd you get 'em?
Winnfield: Your bag.
Vega: Aim with my gun usin' my bullets? Lemme ask you, do you brush your teeth using my toothbrush?
Winnfield: Well, mine fell on the floor.
It's a pretty bad gunfight when Pat Sajak becomes a source of battlefield wisdom.

Winnfield may accidentally shoot Vanna White, but he won't win this match

- Mark Wentz

Our film opens with Roger Murtaugh's pager going off. As luck would have it the mortgage rates have dropped again. He has to run off to refinance his house. Roger's pager goes off again, his daughter has now graduated from smoking pot in the house to meathodone. Looks like more grounding for her. While Roger storms out saying he is almost 60 years old, Riggs asks Osama where he is from. Osama replies "Jalabad." Riggs confuses this with Johanasburg, and confuses Osama with the guys who dumped his girlfiend in the bay. Riggs runs off to find a straight jacket, so he can show Osama how crazy he is by popping his shoulder in and out of socket repeatedly. As Riggs leaves through the window, our man Jules shows up. Behind him saunters Vincent Vega. Jules picks up his phone and calls Marcellus, saying they have Osama. Jules repeats Marcellus's instructions out loud so Osama can hear "'Hold the mother$#@&%$#*$ here and wait for the cavalry who should be comin' directly.' Nice. Oh yeah, 'a couple of pipe hittin n****** with a pair of pliers and a blow torch.' Man, thats some cold shit." Jules hangs up. Meanwhile Vincent Vega decides to torture Osama by dancing the Batman in front of him. Just as Osama thinks it can't get any worse in comes Vincent Vega's brother, Vic Vega, straight in from Resevoir Dogs. Apperently Osama did not pay Joe Cappa either. Vic Vega has in his arms a straight edge razor, some tape, five gallons of gasoline, and a radio. He turns on the radio and puts it down. He says "Hi, I'm Mr. Blonde. Osama, have you been listening to K-Billy's super sounds of the 70's? I think your going to like it." The radio plays the first cords of Stealers Wheel "Stuck in the middle with you." Soon Osama's mouth is tapped and his ear is missing...

- Nice Guy Eddie

Hold the phone. What both commentators seem to have missed is there is absolutely NO WAY that Osama Bin Laden can ever exist in the Lethal Weapon universe and not wind up being shot down in the street like a mad dog. It is a MORAL IMPERATIVE of the action movie. If necessary, Dirty Harry Callahan could be called out of retirement to do the deed, but it's much more likely that Bin Laden will doom himself by doing something venal, hopefully greasing both Chris Rock and Joe Pesci in the process, then pointing a gun at the heroes, thus giving them a loophole in their orders. Riggs will then happily shoot a smiley face into him while Murtaugh puts a well-aimed .38 slug smack between his eyes. The real question is, with Bin Laden dead, who comes out ahead? Riggs and Murtaugh will get demoted to beat cops again, and will face another chewing-out from their boss, but basically they'll be pleased. Jules and Vincent will wind up telling Marcellus Wallace how they failed to fulfill their contracts. Any way you look at it, they lose.

- Thag

You gotta feel sorry for the Oval Office carpet: First it got stained with Bill Clinton's love mayonaise, and now Bin Laden's gray matter.

- Mr. Silverback- A lethal weapon in his own right, but in a cuddly sort of way.

Oh good, a match with Mel, and he's up against . . . John Travolta!?! ~snort, giggle, snigger,guffawhahahahahahahahahhhh~ Travolta, the force behind BATTLESHIP EARTH? the worst science fiction movie since Edison invented the motion picture!!! ~titter, smirk, cackle, hee-hawhawhawhawhawhawhawhaw~ the one that is soooo bad, it can't even make it as a cult film? ~chortle, chuckle, hohohohhohohohohohohohhohhohohoohohohooh~ AND he still is going to make sequel, regardless of anyone else watching, because it's his religion? Which is based on some really badly written books by L.Ron Hubbard? ~horselaugh, snigger, _THUD_, ow, my ribs!~ stop it guys, you CAN'T be serious about this!

- GibsonGirl

"I dig. I'm cool. Just like Fonzie.", says Jules Winnfield.

As usual, your commentators have failed to address the real question: What effect is Jules' "Fonzie" obsession having on Vincent (or "Vinnie" for short)? Remember that before he abandoned Mr. Kotter's teachings, changed his last name to Vega and got a new four-letter vocabulary, Vinnie was on the same network as Fonzie, maybe even on the same night. And no matter how cool and/or hot he was, he could never quite compare to Fonzarelli. Over and over again, he'd get upstaged: Vinnie would get his face on a poster, but Fonzie would get his face on a dozen posters. Vinnie would get a magazine article devoted to him, but Fonzie would get an entire magazine. The admonitions of ABC executives still echo in Vincent's ears: "You're cool, but not quite Fonzie. Why can't you be more like Fonzie? Why can't you use Fonzie's brand of grease in your hair? Why can't you wear Fonzie-brand leather? You have so much potential, Vinnie, but Fonzie is our favorite...avorite...avorite..."

Now, don't you think that Vincent might be driven to paroxyms of misdirected RAGE (tm) by Jules' constant references to his former arch-rival from his network TV days? I sure think so. Jules will be lucky if he makes it halfway to the target before Vincent grabs him and gives a new, literal meaning to "Up your nose with a rubber hose." Murtaugh has not, to my knowledge, said nice things about Snake Plissken, so he has nothing to fear from the wrath of Mad Riggs.

- Captain Corcoran

I think that this match is best described by movies... Evil Dead: Army of Darkness: "Good? Bad? I'm the one with the gun..." Tango & Cash: "Why is my gun smaller than yours?" "Genetics, Peewee..." Scream: "It works better with the safety off." and my personal fav. Star Wars: The Phantom Menace: "WIZARD!" As long as I see something explode with a wisecrack, I'm happy...

- Peter Tutham

I'm going to have to go with Hotbranch here. Those guys will probably deliver Mr. bin Laden to someone that will cause an extremely painful and agonizing death. Now, fifty bullets into the back of the head is pretty brutal, but it's not an agonizing way to go (instantaneous and painless). The public probably are mostly out for the most horrible death imaginable to the evil sunnuvabitch (I know I am, and I'm not even American). The good President will most likely be smart enough (well, perhaps the smart people he surrounds himself with) to see that a death by the bad guy will be one the public will enjoy if it is televised, and so for another four years in office he orders for the good guys to surrender bin Laden. Justiiiiiiiccccccce.

- Snicker

Vega and Winnfield are doomed by a convergence of motion picture identity and the laws of physics. Consider recent performances by their actors.

Samuel L. Jackson: Mace Windu in "The Phantom Menace". Despite appering in the Hoover Deluxe of the "Star Wars" franchise, he was not dragged down to the movie's level. He was the epitome of cool. Jules would be proud.

John Travolta: Terl in "Battlefield Earth". Despite being in arguably the worst motion picture of the 20th century(stay tuned in March for the resolution of said argument), he was the worst thing in the movie. He was nine feet of dreadlocked, green-toothed anti-cool.

Any budding physicist or sci-fi fan knows what happens when matter and antimatter meet. The same goes for cool and anti-cool. The instant Vega brushes up against Winnfield, a titanic explosion levels most of Los Angeles--but of course, Riggs and Murtaugh escape in the nick of time, with flames licking at their heels.

Oh, but they forgot to bring along their prisoner, who got toasted. So in this match, everybody wins.

- Call me Shane

After reading a certain previous match, I've come to the conclusion that since Osama Bin Laden has spent at least a flight of several hours in the company of Austin Powers, he will be a total nervous wreck and kill himself before anybody else can.

- Lizzu

All I know is, however this match turns out, it's going to be butchered to hell when they show it on cable.

- Infraggable Krunk -- I suggested this match! Ain't I cool?

I think I have to give this one to the Pulp Fiction crew. If Vega can direct the fight to a theater either showing Battlefield Earth, Domestic Disturbance, Moment by Moment, Staying Alive, Lucky Numbers, Look Who's Talking Now, or (god help us) Battlefield Earth 2, both Riggs and Murtaugh will be too overpowered to fight back.

- My name is Kenny


"My name is Murt-AUGH!" Sums it up.

- Boba Foot

If you liked this match, check out these other past matches:

Cartwrights v. Corleones
Mad Max v. Snake Plissken
Dirty Harry v. Shaft

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Next Match: Have you been tempted?
ETA: Monday, December 31st, 2001

© 2001, Dragon Hamster Productions, LLC